Hound wrote:Can we come to an understanding that perhaps attending the inauguration for either party isn't the best way to show support? Is it acceptable for the OP to feel upset about the Mormons attending Trump's inauguration while showing no concern for the apostles attending Obama's and other Democratic presidents' inaugurations?
The OP can feel however the OP wants, it's acceptable as it's a free country. Didn't Obama show up to the inauguration? It's fine in my opinion to show up to the inauguration of evil because we can distinguish between support for the ceremony and support for the recipient of the ceremony. We aren't yet to an administrative civil war. Until then, it's important to show trust and support of the system.
I will point out though that the Church is big on "avoiding the appearance of evil," and so there are good reasons in general to worry about church leaders getting too cozy with evil doers.
Social distancing has likely already begun to flatten the curve...Continue to research good antivirals and vaccine candidates. Make everyone wear masks. -- J.D. Vance
The Church still hasn't issued a statement in opposition to any of Trump's immoral proposals. Maybe it will speak up about Trump's "ethnic cleansing" idea for Gaza and the Palestinians? But I don't think they will. I think they all lack the courage of their convictions.
This is all they've said so far...
As disciples of Jesus Christ, the following principles guide the Church’s approach:
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints obeys the law. {unless we think no one is looking and we can get away with avoiding taxes or misleading members about Church history, or if there's a chance of changing the law by suing someone}
We follow Jesus Christ by loving our neighbors. The Savior taught that the meaning of “neighbor” includes all of God’s children. {but we don't want gay couples as members}
We seek to provide basic food and clothing, as our capacity allows, to those in need, regardless of their immigration status. {So long as we don't have to dip into the hoarded hundreds of billions of dollars that we don't want anyone to know about} We are especially concerned about keeping families together {Unless one of those family members is apostate and a critic of the church, then we encourage families to shun that person, and unless staying together means one or more of that family not joining the church - in such cases we advocate for the individual to Jon the church at the expense of their family unity}
Italics added by me for the purposes of making the Church statement more honest.
Premise 1. Eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable.
Premise 2. The best evidence for the Book of Mormon is eyewitness testimony.
Conclusion. Therefore, the best evidence for the Book of Mormon is notoriously unreliable.
Gordon Monson also points out that the Church is once again sitting on its hands when faced with speaking out against an immoral dictator…
What’s to be done inside The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints when what Jesus, the supposed centerpiece of that religion, taught, what he commanded, may differ from the positions taken by modern leadership of the very church that claims his name, his authorship, his authority? Leadership that could be seen as bowing and bending under the boot of an American president?
Specifically, on an important matter of the day, the matter of “mass deportations,” and what the church’s policy is, as recently articulated in a news release and further in a letter sent to lay leaders by the governing First Presidency, on newly enforced immigration policies in the United States and how the faith is to treat undocumented immigrants in response to Donald Trump’s intentions to round them up and send them packing.
If Trump’s intentions run counter to what Jesus preached — and they do — and the church offers a tepid, ambiguous, lawyered-up reaction instead of a strong, clear-cut, Christlike counterstatement, how should the faithful react to that display of duplicity?
When push comes to shove, whom does the church follow — Trump or Jesus? Whom should it follow?
The church has underscored that it advocates for both compassion for others and following the laws of the land, that believers should comply with each of those. But on the back half of that, are there times when heavenly admonitions supersede political agendas?
It might seem aggressive to make a comparison between what’s happening now in the United States and what occurred in 1930s and ‘40s Germany. But … here goes: When the Nazis were rounding up Jews to be sent away from their homes, it was illegal for German Latter-day Saints, or anyone else, to hide or shelter those souls. And yet, there were some who did exactly that. Were they right to do so even as they broke the law? Answering that question the wrong way would be an offense to all God-loving people.
And so, the church takes its seemingly soft position now.
Premise 1. Eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable.
Premise 2. The best evidence for the Book of Mormon is eyewitness testimony.
Conclusion. Therefore, the best evidence for the Book of Mormon is notoriously unreliable.
Brunson • In the ward that I attend, we have, over the last two years, had a lot of Venezuelan and Latin American refugees and immigrants. Talking to some of our friends — they’re here with five-year legal status as refugees — the father’s afraid to let his son go out because he doesn’t want his son to be swept up, accidentally or deliberately [in deportation raids]. … These immigrant members have been a critical and a vital part of the congregation. They’re a big part of the life of the church here. They participate. They pay tithing. We’ve had wonderful life celebrations with them. This idea that they’re scared and unable to even attend church is damaging for them, for me, personally, and for the church.
P.S. Why has this thread been moved from Terrestrial? (Looks to be sorted out now … -c-)
Premise 1. Eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable.
Premise 2. The best evidence for the Book of Mormon is eyewitness testimony.
Conclusion. Therefore, the best evidence for the Book of Mormon is notoriously unreliable.
This week, 27 religious groups representing millions of Americans filed a law suit against the Trump administration citing that the new policy infringes on the groups' religious freedom.
That is putting local religious leaders in a bind when it comes to harboring undocumented Minnesotans. Zimmerman says she and her congregation are working to keep houses of worship safe harbors for immigrants.
First Unitarian Church of Salt Lake City “is proud to belong to the Unitarian Universalist Association, which is a party to the suit against the Trump administration for its order, which is in violation of our rights under the First Amendment,” the Rev. Monica Dobbins wrote in an email. “For religious freedom to have any meaning in our society, all people must feel safe when they worship, both people who are immigrants and nonimmigrant citizens who are entitled to worship spaces that are not violated by intrusion. It’s during the most difficult times in life when people most need safe places to pray, be among others, and seek pastoral support.”
Utah’s predominant religion, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, known widely for its defense of religious freedom, was among the many faiths that did not join the lawsuit.
When asked why, a church spokesperson declined to comment, pointing instead to a recent reiteration of the faith’s long-standing principles regarding immigration: to obey the law, love all God’s children, provide basic food and clothing, and work to keep families together.
Yep. Treading the same path they trod in Germany in the 1930’s. Quiet acquiescence. Wilful compliance. The Church however did speak out quite vociferously about a Netflix fictional western drama. So there’s that.
Premise 1. Eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable.
Premise 2. The best evidence for the Book of Mormon is eyewitness testimony.
Conclusion. Therefore, the best evidence for the Book of Mormon is notoriously unreliable.
The church’s lawyers are too busy fighting for… *checks notes*… steeple height. Yes, steeple height. A very critical issue, much more important than anything else going on.
I'm grateful the Church stood hand in hand with the civil rights leaders in their fight for equal rights and basic human dignity for all of God's children in the 1960's. It makes me proud to belong to a Church that disavowed its racial policies, stood for equality and fully supported the Civil Rights Act of 1964.
Just like Jesus would have done.
"I'm on paid sabbatical from BYU in exchange for my promise to use this time to finish two books."
The church’s lawyers are too busy fighting for… *checks notes*... steeple height. Yes, steeple height. A very critical issue, much more important than anything else going on.
Der Fuehrer would have prioritized steeple height for the Fatherland.
The LDS Church would like to keep its cursed-skinned neighbors where they belong.
Thanks canpakes for moving this back to Terrestrial
Premise 1. Eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable.
Premise 2. The best evidence for the Book of Mormon is eyewitness testimony.
Conclusion. Therefore, the best evidence for the Book of Mormon is notoriously unreliable.
