Vineyard vs. Orchard & Oliveyard

[Moksha]

Isn't that right, Moksha?

It makes sense when Shulem explains it so well.

[Shulem]

Isn't that right, Moksha?

It makes sense when Shulem explains it so well.

Thank you very much for the compliment, Moksha.

[Shulem]

The Lord of Zenos's so-called vineyard asks the same stupid question three times:

1) What could I have done more for my vineyard?
2) But what could I have done more in my vineyard?
3) What could I have done more for my vineyard?

STOP!

Nothing was done in a vineyard!!! Zenos's parable entails work done within an oliveyard, not a vineyard. Everything taking place must have been within an orchard having trees as prescribed by Mosaic law. It should be obvious to anyone with half a brain (Mormon apologists excluded) that Joseph Smith was plagiarizing Isaiah 5 that describes work being performed in an actual vineyard wherein the hedge and the wall (Isaiah 5:5) surrounded the vines with a tower in the midst having a winepress built therein to accommodate the grapes! There were no trees within the confines of the vineyard described by Isaiah!

The LORD asked:

What could have been done more to my vineyard, that I have not done in it?

That was a fair question posed by the LORD of the vineyard in the Bible but the Lord of the vineyard in the Book of Mormon is fake.

I so testify,

Amen.

[Shulem]

Isaiah used a vineyard to represent Israel (Isaiah 5:7), while Paul used an olive tree. In the light of this, it is significant that the prophet Zenos appears to display some confusion about his metaphor. The parable of the vineyard begins with Israel as an olive tree located in a vineyard (Jacob 5:3). However, halfway through the narrative, the metaphor suddenly switches to the vineyard itself, significantly, just at the point that the Book of Mormon quotes Isaiah (Jacob 5:41). From this point on, the author repeatedly refers to 'the trees of the vineyard', apparently forgetting that the parable started out with olive trees as the primary metaphor, not grapevines.

An olive grove and an oliveyard are one in the same.

[bbbbbbb]

Isaiah used a vineyard to represent Israel (Isaiah 5:7), while Paul used an olive tree. In the light of this, it is significant that the prophet Zenos appears to display some confusion about his metaphor. The parable of the vineyard begins with Israel as an olive tree located in a vineyard (Jacob 5:3). However, halfway through the narrative, the metaphor suddenly switches to the vineyard itself, significantly, just at the point that the Book of Mormon quotes Isaiah (Jacob 5:41). From this point on, the author repeatedly refers to 'the trees of the vineyard', apparently forgetting that the parable started out with olive trees as the primary metaphor, not grapevines.

An olive grove and an oliveyard are one in the same.

However, a vineyard is not an olive grove or oliveyard (although it is doubtful that such a word exists). Vineyards are where vines (usually grape vines) are grown and olive groves are a type of orchard where olive trees are grown. It is absurd to imagine growing grapes in an olive grove and vice versa. The only things they have in common is that they both appear in scripture, but are never conflated in the Bible.

[Shulem]

However, a vineyard is not an olive grove or oliveyard (although it is doubtful that such a word exists). Vineyards are where vines (usually grape vines) are grown and olive groves are a type of orchard where olive trees are grown. It is absurd to imagine growing grapes in an olive grove and vice versa. The only things they have in common is that they both appear in scripture, but are never conflated in the Bible.

The word oliveyard is a word used to describe an olive grove or an orchard. It's found 6 times in the KJV of the Bible. According to the Oxford English Dictionary: Oliveyard is a noun and the earliest known use of the noun oliveyard is in the Middle English period (1150—1500). OED's earliest evidence for oliveyard is from before 1382, in Bible (Wycliffite, early version).

The Bible does not conflate grape and olive production within the same yard (confines) or call them under a single term but separates them as prescribed by the Law of Moses or what might be construed as good husbandry practices.

The fact we have caught Book of Mormon God placing olive trees in what he calls a "vineyard" is proof that he doesn't know what he's talking about and has his foot stuck in his Goddamn mouth.

[Brack]

The word oliveyard is a word used to describe an olive grove or an orchard. It's found 6 times in the KJV of the Bible. According to the Oxford English Dictionary: Oliveyard is a noun and the earliest known use of the noun oliveyard is in the Middle English period (1150—1500). OED's earliest evidence for oliveyard is from before 1382, in Bible (Wycliffite, early version).

The Bible does not conflate grape and olive production within the same yard (confines) or call them under a single term but separates them as prescribed by the Law of Moses or what might be construed as good husbandry practices.

The fact we have caught Book of Mormon God placing olive trees in what he calls a "vineyard" is proof that he doesn't know what he's talking about and has his foot stuck in his Goddamn mouth.

Since oliveyard is mentioned six times in the Old Testament, it is a bit strange that oliveyard isn't mentioned in the Book of Mormon. It basically reminds me that Bethlehem isn't mentioned in the Book of Mormon even though the Old Testament Prophet Micah lived and ministered before Lehi and his crew left the land of Jerusalem at about 600 B.C. Micah's prophesies should have been within the brass plates.

The book of 1 Nephi begins around 600 BC in Jerusalem. Link

“From the superscription of the Book of Micah it is apparent that the prophet’s ministry was during reigns of Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah. His preaching, therefore, took place during the years from approximately 740 B.C. to 697 B.C. We may assign to him an approximate date of 725 B.C. This date reveals Micah as a contemporary of the great Isaiah and possibly also of Hosea and Amos. Link

[Moksha]

It basically reminds me that Bethlehem isn't mentioned in the Book of Mormon even though the Old Testament Prophet Micah lived and ministered before Lehi and his crew left the land of Jerusalem at about 600 B.C.

The Book of Mormon also had Jesus being born in Jerusalem. Think that has something to do with the apologetic Foreskin of Blackness.

[bbbbbbb]

However, a vineyard is not an olive grove or oliveyard (although it is doubtful that such a word exists). Vineyards are where vines (usually grape vines) are grown and olive groves are a type of orchard where olive trees are grown. It is absurd to imagine growing grapes in an olive grove and vice versa. The only things they have in common is that they both appear in scripture, but are never conflated in the Bible.

The word oliveyard is a word used to describe an olive grove or an orchard. It's found 6 times in the KJV of the Bible. According to the Oxford English Dictionary: Oliveyard is a noun and the earliest known use of the noun oliveyard is in the Middle English period (1150—1500). OED's earliest evidence for oliveyard is from before 1382, in Bible (Wycliffite, early version).

The Bible does not conflate grape and olive production within the same yard (confines) or call them under a single term but separates them as prescribed by the Law of Moses or what might be construed as good husbandry practices.

The fact we have caught Book of Mormon God placing olive trees in what he calls a "vineyard" is proof that he doesn't know what he's talking about and has his foot stuck in his Goddamn mouth.

Thanks! I have not read the KJV in years and appreciate your input.

[Shulem]

Since oliveyard is mentioned six times in the Old Testament, it is a bit strange that oliveyard isn't mentioned in the Book of Mormon.

The Smith family knew little if anything about olive production because at that time the only olive groves to be had in America were in southern California where the climate was similar to the Mediterranean. The Smiths never saw an actual olive tree, being far removed from their neck of the woods, so we can assume the word oliveyard was not in their working vocabulary. But still, Smith is without excuse for substituting the word vineyard for a grove of trees. He really flubbed up his lines and as mentioned earlier must have got his wires crossed between the Isaiah and St Paul allegories. Smith was not translating from gold plates, he was storytelling on the fly and made up a lot of crap as he went along.

Jacob 5 is a terrible, terrible reading. There is nothing divine or inspiring about how the God of Israel refers to his prized olive grove as a grapey vineyard. Apologetic excuses for what is an obvious mistake is nothing short of dishonesty and shows how Mormons think they can do whatever they want with any word and change the meaning or assign it to anything they want. But we must hold their feet to the fire and reopen this controversy! I'm afraid the critics have not done a very good job exposing and magnifying this problem for what it is and the apologists have gotten away with butchering a word.

I hope this thread helps people better understand Smith's error and how apologists work to defend a proven liar.