What Troubles You the Most in Mormon History?

[Moksha]

Joseph F. Smith having the faithful Jane Manning James sealed to Joseph Smith as a servant (despite her wishes) just to demonstrate his power as a hateful tyrant.

[dantana]

It's 'catalyst theory' for me. It would have been more believable if they went instead with - J.S. fell in his bathroom while hanging a clock and that's when he got the idea for the flux capacitor, proceeded to then go back in time and got the skinny directly from Abraham himself.

[bbbbbbb]

It's 'catalyst theory' for me. It would have been more believable if they went instead with - J.S. fell in his bathroom while hanging a clock and that's when he got the idea for the flux capacitor, proceeded to then go back in time and got the skinny directly from Abraham himself.

Was it a flux capicitor or a flux copulator?

[Dr. Sunstoned]

I am troubled by the sexually predatory behavior of Smith, Kimball, Young, and others and the deliberate efforts to hide the historical truth from members, investigators, and the general public.

[dantana]

It's 'catalyst theory' for me. It would have been more believable if they went instead with - J.S. fell in his bathroom while hanging a clock and that's when he got the idea for the flux capacitor, proceeded to then go back in time and got the skinny directly from Abraham himself.

Was it a flux capicitor or a flux copulator?

Well, within my main capacitor resides lingering particles of early Mormon riegn conditioning. So, in order to hedge my bets in case Mormon god turns out to be the real deal, I don't do sex jokes.

I do see some good potential in what you've got started, but, you're gonna have to be on your own to play with it.


In the early Mormon reign -
with a _____in my hand -
with an aching in my heart -
from my bishops sternful stand.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B34qwRrkSvQ

[huckelberry]

One of the things that bothered me was the racism. There was no explaining it away. Racism was (and is) woven like a golden thread into fabric and doctrine of the Church.

The one third "less valiant" in the War in Heaven. A postdiluvian Egyptus passing on the curse of Cain and black skin, so that the devil could be represented after the flood. The Book of Mormon's incantation of "white and delightsome." The introduction of slavery into the Utah Territory. The utterances of every prophet from Brigham Young to Spencer Kimball.

Before the end of the priesthood ban, if you accepted the truth of the LDS Church, you had to also accept that God was a racist prick.

These days, post-priesthood bad, you have several choices. You can accept that God a was once racist prick, but the US Civil Rights movement changed him. Or you can say that God wasn't talking to his prophets because race didn't matter that much, yet. Or perhaps, you can go with God was indeed talking to his prophets, but they were too [insert idiot excuse here] to hear him.

Hi Morley, good point. I am reviewing in my mind why I left this out of my comments. My shelf breaking was in 1966,67. I remember being disturbed by the racial teaching, sometimes revolted but saw it as LDS authority and had to think about that authority first. Morley your age is approximate of mine. You grew up with the exclusion and those racist explanations. How did it work for you? For me my suspicion that it was all wrong only became secure after I decided I did not believe the authority claims.

I should add in honesty this shelf affair was in final year of high school. I remember in the years leading to that there was a growing awareness of racial wrong. Like other Americans I remember some racist assumptions in my youthful mind which were being challenged through the preceding years yet as a child I could see Blacks as poor living separately and different. Suggestions that they were inferior from many sources even if not passionate could create assumptions. For me those assumptions were breaking down but they were not all at once completely erased.

[High Spy]

Joseph F. Smith having the faithful Jane Manning James sealed to Joseph Smith as a servant (despite her wishes) just to demonstrate his power as a hateful tyrant.

Brother Joe did some good, and also some very bad things to present us with a great challenge to separate a few wheat kernels from a plethora of chaff.

[Morley]

Hi Morley, good point. I am reviewing in my mind why I left this out of my comments. My shelf breaking was in 1966,67. I remember being disturbed by the racial teaching, sometimes revolted but saw it as LDS authority and had to think about that authority first. Morley your age is approximate of mine. You grew up with the exclusion and those racist explanations. How did it work for you? For me my suspicion that it was all wrong only became secure after I decided I did not believe the authority claims.

Hey Huck, it's always nice to talk with you.

None of the items on Sock Puppet's list resonated with me until I was pretty much already gone. In those days before the internet, I mostly wasn't even aware of the majority of the issues that torment people today. Now, at times, I'm surprised at how little it took to drive me away.

My journey out of the religion had nothing to do with anyone's critiques or with any anti-Mormon literature. Though I now recognize the value that the Tanners added to the debate, I stayed away from them because of the patina of evil that the Church had painted them with. And, unfortunately for me, I didn't read Fawn Brody until after I was long gone.

For me, the losing of belief came from learning a little science and developing an awareness of race issues. I'd served in Viet Nam, and the brotherhood forged in combat forced me to wince at the idea that Black folks were somehow inferior. My budding university education shot down the Garden of Eden and all the other antediluvian BS. It became obvious that either the Theory of Evolution was a fact, or that God had tweaked the fossil record to make evolution look like it was a fact. What was then called 'The Diego Blood Group' proved the Book of Mormon peoples were not from the Near East. With all of this, I came think that if there was indeed an omnipotent God out there, then he had to be a trickster God, with threads of malevolence interwoven into his seeming goodness.

There was nothing I could do to stop the erosion of belief, for the process, once it began, was inexorable. Mormon theology didn't make any sense. During this time, I vacillated between cursing my own intelligence and believing that God must have wanted me to be damned because he'd given me a brain that I couldn't turn off. Why couldn't I just believe? Why wouldn't he help me to just believe?

This was the in mid-seventies, and I had never known anyone who had left the Church for intellectual reasons. I tried mightily to stay. I had meetings with the stake president. I formally took all of the missionary discussions. I fasted and prayed. I still attended church, tithed, and held callings. However, ultimately my attempt to stay while not believing seemed dishonest, so I stopped wearing garments and wrote a letter of resignation. When I did this, my wife became disillusioned with me, and after a while decided she would punish me by having an affair with a ward clerk from another stake. Needless to say, our marriage didn't last.

It's funny. When I look back, I'm not sure that things could have ever turned out any differently. I was not, by either temperament or intellect, a fit for Mormonism or a reliance on faith. MG would say that I had free will, and that I chose to not believe. I'm not sure that that's true. Some choices (perhaps thankfully) are not ours to make. At this point in my life, I have to say that I would not have had any of it turn out any differently.

I should add in honesty this shelf affair was in final year of high school. I remember in the years leading to that there was a growing awareness of racial wrong. Like other Americans I remember some racist assumptions in my youthful mind which were being challenged through the preceding years yet as a child I could see Blacks as poor living separately and different. Suggestions that they were inferior from many sources even if not passionate could create assumptions. For me those assumptions were breaking down but they were not all at once completely erased.

Ha! Me, too. As I write about his now, I feel the weight of shame that I ever used to buy into any of this stuff.

[2bizE]

What bothers me is Joseph’s arrogance coupled by the followers ignorance and ease of deception. For example, members who thought he was a prophet purchased some mummies with papyri. Joseph, in his arrogance, stole their confidence and pulled the Book of Abraham out of his a$$…and most of them believed him. My ancestors certainly did. They traveled from England and Scotland, Norway and Germany to meet this prophet and follow the members to Zion. What a deceived bunch of people.

[Dr. Shades]

When I did this, my wife became disillusioned with me, and after a while decided she would punish me by having an affair with a ward clerk from another stake.

Hold the phone. . . she blamed YOU for her having an affair??