The Beautiful and Loving Marriage of Joseph and Emma

[Everybody Wang Chung]

If you go to LDS.org and search for "joseph and emma's marriage" you will get hundreds of results explaining why their marriage exemplifies and is the blueprint for a truly celestial and loving marriage. It's clear the Church is still struggling to be honest and open with most of its history. Now the rest of the story.

Emma Tried to Poison Joseph

Brigham Young taught in General Conference on at least two different occasions, that Emma tried and failed to kill Joseph.

"To my certain knowledge Emma Smith is one of the damnedest liars I know of on this earth; yet there is no good thing I would refuse to do for her, if she would only be a righteous woman; but she will continue in her wickedness. Not six months before the death of Joseph, he called his wife Emma into a secret council, and there he told her the truth, and called upon her to deny if she could. He told her that the judgments of God would come upon her forthwith if she did not repent. HE TOLD HER OF THE TIME SHE UNDERTOOK TO POISON HIM, AND HE TOLD HER THAT SHE WAS A CHILD OF HELL, AND LITERALLY THE MOST WICKED WOMAN ON THIS EARTH, THAT THERE WAS NOT ONE MORE WICKED THAN SHE. He told her where she got the poison, and how she put it in a cup of coffee; said he, "You got the poison so and so, and I drank it, but you could not kill me." When it entered his stomach he went to the door and threw it off. He spoke to her in that council in a very severe manner, and SHE NEVER SAID ONE WORD IN REPLY. I HAVE WITNESSES OF THIS SCENE ALL AROUND, WHO CAN TESTIFY THAT I AM NOW TELLING THE TRUTH. TWICE SHE UNDERTOOK TO KILL HIM." - Brigham Young A5:8; Gen. Conf., 7 Oct. 1866

"JOSEPH HIMSELF TESTIFIED BEFORE HIGH HEAVEN MORE THAN ONCE THAT SHE HAD ADMINISTERED POISON TO HIM. THERE ARE MEN AND WOMEN PRESENT TODAY WHO CAN BEAR WITNESS that more hell was never wrapped up in any human being than there is in her. She gave him too heavy a dose and he vomited it up and was saved by faith." - Brigham Young A, vol. 4 Gen. Conf. 7 Oct. 1863

Joseph Was Physically Abusive To Emma

President Joseph told me that he had difficulty with Emma yesterday. She rode up to Woodworths with him and called while he came to the Temple. When he returned she was demanding the gold watch of Flora. He reproved her for her evil treatment. On their return home she abused him much and also when he got home. He had to use harsh measures to put a stop to her abuse but finally succeeded. Clayton, Journal, August 16 1843

I can only imagine the harsh measures Joseph took against Emma. A punch in the face? A kick in the stomach? Pulling her hair and throwing her on the ground? Strangulation? Joseph could have used any violence as long as it caused Emma enough physical pain to silence her. Praise to the man!

Emotional Abuse/Trauma Suffered By Emma

Physical abuse aside, I can't even begin to comprehend the emotional abuse/trauma she suffered at the hands of Joseph. Imagine trying to convince your wife that she would be destroyed unless she allowed you to take additional wives. Well, that's exactly what happened when Joseph made up D&C132.

Joseph also convinced Emma to elope with him, which upset and saddened Emma's family. Joseph also promised Emma's father that he would give up crystal gazing/treasure digging, but quickly broke his promise. Joseph also squandered Emma's dowry in no time at all.

More serious, Joseph had an affair with Fanny Alger, the babysitter/house maid. He had an affair with Eliza R. Snow while Eliza was living with the Smiths. He went on to take at least 34 wives behind Emma's back. I can't think of anything more romantic.

Yes, Emma suffered greatly, both physically and mentally. I completely understand and sympathize with Emma for trying to poison Joseph. Whatever you want to call their marriage, it was anything but celestial, loving or beautiful.

[Moksha]

Yes, but...

Joseph was under the command of God to proposition any females that came across his path or he would be skewered by an angel with a drawn sword.

Likewise, he had been ordered by God to destroy Emma if she opposed his sexual shenanigans. So what's a prophet to do?

Mormons fervently believe this to be true. Are they all ninnies for this belief?

[bbbbbbb]

Yes, but...

Joseph was under the command of God to proposition any females that came across his path or he would be skewered by an angel with a drawn sword.

Likewise, he had been ordered by God to destroy Emma if she opposed his sexual shenanigans. So what's a prophet to do?

Mormons fervently believe this to be true. Are they all ninnies for this belief?

I have personally concluded that there are two varieties of ninnies. The first variety are those who are (usually blissfully) ignorant. The second type are those who know the facts, but have too much skin in the game.

[Dr. Sunstoned]

I wonder (I really do) which category members of the Q15 fall under.

[dantana]

I wonder (I really do) which category members of the Q15 fall under.

As Sethbag liked to say, (paraphrased) Mormonism isn't just made up nonsense, it's obviously made up nonsense.

I am a bit surprised there has never been a turncoat among the top tier fellows. I mean, some of these guys are smart, successful, savvy, business people. Oh, I think I just answered my own question

[Chap]

As Sethbag liked to say, (paraphrased) Mormonism isn't just made up nonsense, it's obviously made up nonsense.

Yes - that's the quote I was trying to remember in another thread. Wasn't the original something like "I'll let you into a little secret: Mormonism is not only not true, it's obviously not true." I miss Sethbag!

A lot of persistent religious belief in collections of faith claims that to the outsider simply don't make sense can be explained by the fact that in reality they don't make sense - but it takes a rare person to see that the religion in which that person's parents raised them, and which is practised by most members of their community is open to serious and obvious criticisms. Getting to that point can be a hard and often painful process - and not just for Mormons.

[dantana]

As Sethbag liked to say, (paraphrased) Mormonism isn't just made up nonsense, it's obviously made up nonsense.

Yes - that's the quote I was trying to remember in another thread. Wasn't the original something like "I'll let you into a little secret: Mormonism is not only not true, it's obviously not true." I miss Sethbag!

A lot of persistent religious belief in collections of faith claims that to the outsider simply don't make sense can be explained by the fact that in reality they don't make sense - but it takes a rare person to see that the religion in which that person's parents raised them, and which is practised by most members of their community is open to serious and obvious criticisms. Getting to that point can be a hard and often painful process - and not just for Mormons.

Yeah. I think your rendering is closer. Interesting how we both remember a seemingly obscure point from, who knows how long ago. I guess simple and succinct is timeless.

[Chap]

Yes - that's the quote I was trying to remember in another thread. Wasn't the original something like "I'll let you into a little secret: Mormonism is not only not true, it's obviously not true." I miss Sethbag!

A lot of persistent religious belief in collections of faith claims that to the outsider simply don't make sense can be explained by the fact that in reality they don't make sense - but it takes a rare person to see that the religion in which that person's parents raised them, and which is practised by most members of their community is open to serious and obvious criticisms. Getting to that point can be a hard and often painful process - and not just for Mormons.

Yeah. I think your rendering is closer. Interesting how we both remember a seemingly obscure point from, who knows how long ago. I guess simple and succinct is timeless.

I think we both remember it because it was his signature line. I think it is worth drawing attention to what Sethbag wrote because it challenges us all to ask a serious question "If I explained the details of my religion to a reasonable person whose culture did not already include the basic elements of that religion, would they think it made sense?". I am talking, for instance, about explaining basic Christianity to someone whose culture does not have a concept of a deity of the Abrahamic kind - the all-powerful, all-knowing, eternal being who created and sustains everything and is the source of the moral order. Even in the West, a good approximation to that can be someone brought up in a good, moral and kindly family in whose life religion played no part. Such as person (I have found) tends to ask "To what interesting question is all that stuff an answer?". A difficult question ...

[bbbbbbb]

Yeah. I think your rendering is closer. Interesting how we both remember a seemingly obscure point from, who knows how long ago. I guess simple and succinct is timeless.

I think we both remember it because it was his signature line. I think it is worth drawing attention to what Sethbag wrote because it challenges us all to ask a serious question "If I explained the details of my religion to a reasonable person whose culture did not already include the basic elements of that religion, would they think it made sense?". I am talking, for instance, about explaining basic Christianity to someone whose culture does not have a concept of a deity of the Abrahamic kind - the all-powerful, all-knowing, eternal being who created and sustains everything and is the source of the moral order. Even in the West, a good approximation to that can be someone brought up in a good, moral and kindly family in whose life religion played no part. Such as person (I have found) tends to ask "To what interesting question is all that stuff an answer?". A difficult question ...

That has certainly been my experience in China. There are virtually no cultural foundations in China for Judeo-Christian beliefs. Although most Westerners consider Bhuddism to be a native Chinese religion, it is actually Indian and it required many centuries to engrain itself well into Chinese culture. Even today Bhuddism is a minority religion on a par with Confucianism or Daoism, although all of them can be, and have been, syncretized with each other and traditions such as ancestor worship.

The primary cultural associations that most informed Chinese folks make with Christianity are American beliefs and practices. Given the intense interest in all things American there is a concomitant interest in American Christianity. That includes all strains and beliefs in the heady stew of American religion. It is a huge challenge for Chinese folks to sort all of this out in some sort of coherent manner.

[Chap]

Thanks bbbbbbb. I see that we are singing from the same hymn sheet!