The Fentanyl Crisis thread

[Markk]

Also, border crossing are down dramatically, which helps for sure, partly because of these different actions.

I’d say to watch for actual fentanyl seizures. That will be a better indication of any trend.

Cartels aren’t going to just stand down by not sending folks to a border that won’t allow passage. Like I asked before ... what happens if you were to completely seal off all border traffic? Does that solve the fentanyl crisis?

So before we go on, Trump is doing more than what you understood?














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[Markk]

Cakes: Cartels aren’t going to just stand down by not sending folks to a border that won’t allow passage.

No, we are at war with them, or at least should be. Are you suggesting we bow down to them and surrender?

Cakes: Like I asked before ... what happens if you were to completely seal off all border traffic? Does that solve the fentanyl crisis?

No, what is your point. But it would stop all fentanyl coming over the border now, if no one could cross it, which is pretty much impossible. Again what is your point.

[canpakes]

I’d say to watch for actual fentanyl seizures. That will be a better indication of any trend.

Cartels aren’t going to just stand down by not sending folks to a border that won’t allow passage. Like I asked before ... what happens if you were to completely seal off all border traffic? Does that solve the fentanyl crisis?

So before we go on, Trump is doing more than what you understood?














/

Is that blank spot Trump’s plan to tackle ‘the fentanyl crisis’?

[Chap]

[....]

Cakes: Like I asked before ... what happens if you were to completely seal off all border traffic? Does that solve the fentanyl crisis?

No, what is your point. But it would stop all fentanyl coming over the border now, if no one could cross it, which is pretty much impossible. Again what is your point.

Let's see, where are we? This is the "Fentanyl Crisis thread'. Presumably we are here to discuss how to solve America's fentanyl crisis.

We now seem to have agreed that sealing off 'the border' (which means 'the border with Mexico, amirite?) would stop fentanyl crossing 'the border', because sealing off the border means, by definition, stopping anything crossing the border, including fentanyl. No disagreement there.

We have also heard from Mark that this would not solve America's fentanyl crisis - and we know that it won't, because most fentanyl entering America is brought by American citizens, not immigrants from Mexico, legal or otherwise. See this from the Cato Institute:


Fentanyl Is Smuggled for U.S. Citizens By U.S. Citizens, Not Asylum Seekers.

Fentanyl overdoses tragically caused tens of thousands of preventable deaths last year. Many politicians who want to end U.S. asylum law claim that immigrants crossing the border illegally are responsible. An NPR-Ipsos poll last week found that 39 percent of Americans and 60 percent of Republicans believe, “Most of the fentanyl entering the U.S. is smuggled in by unauthorized migrants crossing the border illegally.” A more accurate summary is that fentanyl is overwhelmingly smuggled by U.S. citizens almost entirely for U.S. citizen consumers.

Here are facts:

Fentanyl smuggling is ultimately funded by U.S. consumers who pay for illicit opioids: nearly 99 percent of whom are U.S. citizens.

In 2021, U.S. citizens were 86.3 percent of convicted fentanyl drug traffickers—ten times greater than convictions of illegal immigrants for the same offense.

Over 90 percent of fentanyl seizures occur at legal crossing points or interior vehicle checkpoints, not on illegal migration routes, so U.S. citizens (who are subject to less scrutiny) when crossing legally are the best smugglers.

The location of smuggling makes sense because hard drugs at ports of entry are about 97 percent less likely to be stopped than are people crossing illegally between them.

Just 0.02 percent of the people arrested by Border Patrol for crossing illegally possessed any fentanyl whatsoever.

So ... remind me again why we are trying to find solutions to the fentanyl crisis by talking about deportations of illegal immigrants, when most people who smuggle the stuff are American citizens?

[Gadianton]

Now take that further and add that to the whole state of California, which has who knows how many illegal immigrants, well over 2 million.

Wonder if Steuss or Canpakes can figure out what the point of this is. Yes, we know there are lots of illegal immigrants in CA. Only a small number of them are involved in criminal gang activity and pushing Fentanyl. Focusing on deporting innocents at work, which is what Trump is doing, is doing zilch to solve any drug crisis or crime problem we have. massive resources spent on deporting innocent people is resources that you could be using in your drug war for something productive.

How are people here innocent if the are breaking our immigration laws?

How were the Jews innocent if they were still living in Germany after the law had revoked their citizenship?

The quote below is from ACLU, that tells illegal immigrants how to keep from being deported,

Good for the ACLU, one might confuse them as being the Christians of this nation and not the garbage people going to big churches and praying for Trump to mass deport innocent people. What a bunch of low lives.

Again, a complete failure by Markk to provide a justification for mass deportations of innocent people. We know it won't help with the fentanyl crisis, and we know that it burns resources that could be used to help the fentanyl crisis.

[Markk]

Chap: Let's see, where are we? This is the "Fentanyl Crisis thread'. Presumably we are here to discuss how to solve America's fentanyl crisis.

Yes, but but there are nuances, and like with all longer threads it will go all over the place.

Chap:We now seem to have agreed that sealing off 'the border' (which means 'the border with Mexico, amirite?) would stop fentanyl crossing 'the border', because sealing off the border means, by definition, stopping anything crossing the border, including fentanyl. No disagreement there

To me it is a weird question, it would be like saying if there was no such thing as fentanyl, none would come across the border. But hey, it is true. I am waiting for cakes point in asking the question.

Chap: We have also heard from Mark that this would not solve America's fentanyl crisis - and we know that it won't, because most fentanyl entering America is brought by American citizens, not immigrants from Mexico, legal or otherwise. See this from the Cato Institute:

I didn't say anything at all about the reason the fentanyl crisis won't be solved, because most fentanyl is brought in by Americans. That is just some sort of straw-man.

Chap we can solve the crisis, but we will never stop fentanyl use completely, I believe that. Do you believe that we will always have a epidemic of it? I don't.

It does not matter who brings it over, what matters is that it is coming over. Drones bring it over, so I am not sure what your point is? Why does it matter how the cartel gets it across?

Chap...So ... remind me again why we are trying to find solutions to the fentanyl crisis by talking about deportations of illegal immigrants, when most people who smuggle the stuff are American citizens?

I'm not? You are arguing with your straw-man. I believe one of many ways of slowing the crisis is by stopping it coming over by any means, including over the border by legal or illegal cartel mules. And keep in mind that once the cartel drugs get in the US, it is distributed by the cartel here. The mules are just that, mules.

[Markk]

Gad...Wonder if Steuss or Canpakes can figure out what the point of this is. Yes, we know there are lots of illegal immigrants in CA. Only a small number of them are involved in criminal gang activity and pushing Fentanyl. Focusing on deporting innocents at work, which is what Trump is doing, is doing zilch to solve any drug crisis or crime problem we have. massive resources spent on deporting innocent people is resources that you could be using in your drug war for something productive.

The question was how to deport folks...Lol, remember? You pasted what I said here from the Jersey Girl thread about mass deportation. So as you said, there are indeed lots if illegal immigrants in CA., and if they rescind SB-54, ICE holds can be put on illegal immigrants, even for a parking ticket. Which in regard to Jersey Girl's question, this is one way they can help mass deportation illegal immigrants.

This question had nothing to do with drugs, but helping and allowing ICE to enforce the immigration laws.

You mixed up your own argument Gad.

[Markk]

Gad...How were the Jews innocent if they were still living in Germany after the law had revoked their citizenship?

Illegal immigrants do not have US citizenship Gad. You might want to read what you wrote and think about the logic, or lack of. Those that came into our country broke and are breaking established laws of the US code.

Gad:Good for the ACLU, one might confuse them as being the Christians of this nation and not the garbage people going to big churches and praying for Trump to mass deport innocent people. What a bunch of low lives.

Again, a complete failure by Markk to provide a justification for mass deportations of innocent people. We know it won't help with the fentanyl crisis, and we know that it burns resources that could be used to help the fentanyl crisis.

You have the right to believe that and speak it and I would fight to protect that as a right. But I would hope you would just also admit that there should also be an open border and no immigration laws.

[Markk]

So before we go on, Trump is doing more than what you understood?














/

Is that blank spot Trump’s plan to tackle ‘the fentanyl crisis’?

LoL...that's it?

[canpakes]

So ... remind me again why we are trying to find solutions to the fentanyl crisis by talking about deportations of illegal immigrants, when most people who smuggle the stuff are American citizens?

I'm not? You are arguing with your straw-man.

I don’t think the straw man of mass deportations is Chap’s. You keep mentioning it as a tool to fight ‘the fentanyl crisis’, and harping on it in thread after thread.

Last year, CBP arrested about 3,600 people at the border carrying fentanyl. About 90% of those individuals were American citizens. Using that thing called ‘math’, that would leave about 360 non-citizens caught transporting that drug.

But we’re going to spend 80 billion dollars deporting every 1 million suspected illegal immigrants, none of whom are the 360 folks caught at the border, nor would be trying to go back anywhere near the border.

Not only would mass deportations be completely ineffective at making a dent in any proclaimed fentanyl crisis, but the money spent on deportations could certainly go a long way if redirected towards the demand side, education efforts or rehabilitation programs.

Trump loves his dog and pony shows. But, effective solutions for actual problems faced by real Americans? Not so much.