Question for Don Bradley

[Shulem]

It is indefensable. Carry on Shulem.

With pleasure, Rivendale, with pleasure.

A prominent Mormon voice authoritatively proclaimed dark skin ("dirty copper colored exterior") was indeed a curse; Orson Pratt of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles Pigs:

SACRED METALLIC PLATES.
BY 0, PRATT.

<snip>

Notwithstanding the vast accumulations of evidence, proving the Jewish origin of the American Indians, yet the enlightened Jew has an aversion to claim in them a brotherhood. He contemplates them sunk down into the very depths of degradation and savage life, weltering apparently under the withering curse of Jehovah, with knowledge but little in advance of the brute beast, with a dirty copper colored exterior, rendered still more frightful by horrid daubs of paint and clay. Can it be possible, exclaims the Jew, that these low and degraded specimens of humanity are my kindred? Can they be the seed of Israel—the chosen seed? If so, whence then this skin of blackness—this blighting curse—this ferocious savageism? Oh, Judah, and hear the sad and mournful history of Joseph, thy brother; it is the history from the Gold Plates of Cumorah’s hill; it is the voice of the dead, speaking from their ancient tombs; it is the voice of Prophets whose speech is low out of the ground, and whispers mournfully from the dust. Listen to the words of Nephi :—

Wherefore, the word of the Lord was fulfilled which he spake unto me, saying: "That inasmuch as they will not hearken unto thy words, they shall be cut off from the presence of the Lord. And behold, they were cut off from his presence. And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people, the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them...

SO, TAKE THAT!



Stoopid f-ing apologetic Mormons are no match for Shulem. I will kick their asses!

[Shulem]

The curse was *a* skin of blackness:

Q. — What curse came upon the Lamanites ?

A. — A skin of blackness.

Q. — What kind of a people did they become ?

A. — An idle people, full of mischief and subtlety.

Q.— How did they live ?

A. — By killing beasts of prey.

Q. — Do you know any people who live like this ?

A. — Yes; the Indians.

Q. — Who are the Indians ?

A. — They are Lamanites.

That is what the racist Utah Mormons pigs used to teach! Mormons Pigs today are simply of another stripe and color as they throw swine under the bus. Mormons today trace their so-called priesthood authority from those pigs!

Oink!

[Shulem]

Silly & Stupid (SS) FAIR Mormon apologetics thinks to excuse their past prophets and in doing so they admit their leaders were uninspired and failed to see futuristic values through the Spirit of true revelation. Thus the line they walked was a crooked path and the precepts they held were modeled after the world, not the Spirit. How uninspiring!

Past church leaders should be viewed as products of their times, no more racist than most of their American and Christian peers (and often surprisingly enlightened, given the surrounding culture). A proper understanding of the process of revelation creates a more realistic expectations of the Latter-day Saint prophet, instead of assumptions of infallibility foisted on the Saints by their critics.

Previous statements and scriptural interpretations that are no longer in harmony with current revelation should be discarded. We learn "line upon line, precept upon precept," and when modern revelation has shed new light, old assumptions made in the dark can be done away with.

Or in other words, prophets, seers, and revelators of the past were under the influence of the WORLD rather than inspiring virtue had by the SPIRIT. The statement of being products of their times is an indictment of their ability too act as inspired prophets and proves they lacked the ability to see things in a better light -- and this went on for generations, generation after generation -- THE WHOLE CHURCH stands condemned for their racism. Their teachings and revelations regarding the curse of dark skin was no better than the world, thus apologetic Mormons seek to justify their racist prophets because they were influenced by the world rather than God. Bottom line: The racist Spirit of Mormonism was no more helpful than the racist Spirit of other churches. Let's be clear in understanding that teachings from Brigham young and those who were in line with his doctrine believed their faith in those matters was based on revelation.

To hell with Mormonism and the nasty-ass horse it road in on! Let's face it, the white Mormons believed they were better than dark-skinned people. That is a principle of Mormonism and a doctrine that held firm and steadfast until at least 1978 when the church was pressured by the WORLD (not the Spirit) to begin to change their racist theology.

EXTRACTS FROM THE AMERICAN SUN.”

The following from the American Sun, of November 26th, shows that, at least some of the American Indians are looking to the east for deliverance. We wonder if some of our brethren in that army will not tell them about their forefathers, show them the Book of Mormon, and preach the gospel to them, that the Star of Bethlehem may dawn upon their dark and beclouded minds. We also wonder if the White Indians are not descendants of the ancient Nephites, who were never cursed with a skin of blackness, but a few were spared and made their escape into the south country. A promise was made to their fathers that a remnant of their seed should remain. The Book of Mormon declares this. May not the Munchies be this peculiar remnant? “Every secret thing shall come to light.”

EDITOR.

Church leaders today are nothing more than products of their time. They too will be thrown under the bus in the future.

Stoopid Mormons.

Apologists are liars for the Lord!

[Shulem]

The Improvement Era (often shortened to The Era) was an official magazine of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church) between 1897 and 1970.

The Official Organ of

THE PRIESTHOOD QUORUMS,
MUTUAL IMPROVEMENT ASSO-
CIATIONS, DEPARTMENT OF
EDUCATION, MUSIC COMMITTEE,
WARD TEACHERS, AND OTHER
AGENCIES OF

The Church of
Jesus Christ
of Latter-day Saints

Archeology and the Book of Mormon
by President Milton R. Hunter
OF THE FIRST COUNCIL OF THE SEVENTY

White and Dark Peoples
of Ancient America
PART III

As is well-known, two peoples—a white race and those of a darker color—inhabited ancient America for approximately one thousand years' time. Speaking of their skin colors, Nephi declared that the Lord

. . . had caused the cursing to come upon them [Laman and his associates] . . . wherefore, as they were white, and exceeding fair and delightsome, . . . the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.

Approximately five hundred years later, Alma wrote:

And the skins of the Lamanites were dark, according to the mark which was set upon their fathers, which was a curse upon them because of their transgression and their rebellion against their brethren, who consisted of Nephi, Jacob, and Joseph, and Sam, who were just and holy men.

The reader may say: "Yes, we understand that there were a white race and a dark race in ancient America from approximately 600 B.C. until approximately 400 A.D., but we have understood also that by the latter date all the white people (Nephites), except Moroni, had been killed in a war with the darker people or Lamanites."

100% of the Mormon church believed that white and dark was based on physical skin color. Apologists today who attribute this skin color to artificial markings are full of BS and they are making clowns of themselves with their silly video presentations. Thus we see Mormonism stooping further and further down the hole. Or should I say, "up the hole?"



Let the apologists come to Discuss Mormonism so I can rip them a new one!

[Shulem]

OF THE FIRST COUNCIL OF THE SEVENTY
CHURCH OF Jesus Christ OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
DESERET BOOKS

The Nephites and Mulekites were white and beautiful peoples of Israelitic origin. However, because of the wickedness of a portion of the first group of colonists, the Lord placed the curse of a dark skin on a part of them, which curse was retained by their descendants. Those who had dark skins and all the white people who joined with them were called Lamanites.

QUESTION FOR DON BRADLEY:

Does your remark about genetic isolation pretty much express the same thing that professor Hunter explained in his book about the curse being passed down through the seed?

To keep his own people from this curse, Nephi prophetically prohibits the Nephites from marrying Lamanites, claiming that the Lamanites were marked with "a skin of blackness" to discourage such intermarriage (vv. 21-23).

However, despite their genetic and geographical isolation, the Lamanites were to fulfill an important function in the Nephite covenant. If Nephi's people failed to keep God's commandments—a condition for their prospering in their land of promise—then:

[The Lamanites] shall be a scourge unto [Nephi's] seed, to stir them up in remembrance of me; and insomuch as they will not hearken unto me, and hearken unto my words, they shall scourge them even unto destruction. (2 Ne. 5:25)

[Shulem]

One of the evidences, in the critics' view, is its blatant racism. Not far into the story, the Lamanites, the presumed ancestors of the Indians, are marked with a dark skin: "The Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them." This act resembles the curse of Cain in Geneses, the beginning, according to later Christian readings, of the black race. In the Book of Mormon, the curse comes because of the Lamanites' stubborn adherence to a false tradition about Nephi's usurpation of authority. These troublesome ideas about skin color are followed with stereotypical descriptions of Lamanite savagery.

<snip>

At one point the Nephites become so wicked, a Lamanite prophet calls them to repentance. Lamanite degradation is not ingrained in their natures, ineluctably bonded to their dark skins. Their wickedness is wholly cultural and frequently reversed. During one period, "they began to be a very industrious people; yea, and they were friendly with the Nephites; therefore, they did open a correspondence with them, and the curse of God did no longer follow them." In the end, the Lamanites triumph. The white Nephites perish, and the dark Lamanites remain.

Note how Bushman states that the curse came upon the Lamanites but when they repented the curse was more or less lifted and did no longer follow them; BUT the dark skins, however, *remain*. Thus, Bushman equates the curse like a double edged sword having two parts:

(1) Skin of Blackness
(2) Separation from God

It's clear to me that Bushman does not adhere to the ridiculous apologetics sponsored by idiot apologists who pitch their nonsense on the Internet for media consumption.

[Moksha]

SACRED METALLIC PLATES.
BY 0, PRATT.

<snip>

Notwithstanding the vast accumulations of evidence, proving the Jewish origin of the American Indians, yet the enlightened Jew has an aversion to claim in them a brotherhood. He contemplates them sunk down into the very depths of degradation and savage life, weltering apparently under the withering curse of Jehovah, with knowledge but little in advance of the brute beast, with a dirty copper colored exterior, rendered still more frightful by horrid daubs of paint and clay. Can it be possible, exclaims the Jew, that these low and degraded specimens of humanity are my kindred? Can they be the seed of Israel—the chosen seed? If so, whence then this skin of blackness—this blighting curse—this ferocious savageism? Oh, Judah, and hear the sad and mournful history of Joseph, thy brother; it is the history from the Gold Plates of Cumorah’s hill; it is the voice of the dead, speaking from their ancient tombs; it is the voice of Prophets whose speech is low out of the ground, and whispers mournfully from the dust. Listen to the words of Nephi :—

Wherefore, the word of the Lord was fulfilled which he spake unto me, saying: "That inasmuch as they will not hearken unto thy words, they shall be cut off from the presence of the Lord. And behold, they were cut off from his presence. And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people, the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them...

Well, this certainly belongs in Peterson's "Hitchen's Files of How Religion Spoils Everything".

[Shulem]

Well, this certainly belongs in Peterson's "Hitchen's Files of How Religion Spoils Everything".

You know, it's kinda funny, all of the references I've cited in this thread showcasing how horrible Mormon racism was are forever linked to the thread title: Question for Don Bradley. It's ironic that all this awful material will ever be associated with his name. It didn't necessarily have to be that way if he had just popped in to answer a simple question rather than play dumb with me. It irked me so I let him have it.

If anyone doesn't like it, my response is: Jump in the nearest lake. Shulem does what the hell he wants! And I make the points I want while doing it. I'm a bad-ass anti-Mormon with a chip on my shoulder -- loaded for bear!

[Shulem]

And, trust me when I say, if Bradley fails to show up, it will get much worse, much worse!

I'll drop a nuclear bomb.

[Shulem]

And, trust me when I say, if Bradley fails to show up, it will get much worse, much worse!

And trust me when I say, if Bradley does show up, it will get much worse, much worse!



Beware, Shulem is pissed. I'm taking no prisoners.