You guys are still at it! (why am I not surprised?)

[MG 2.0]

Nothing that I can remember off hand. I was home with a back injury that has kind of laid me up. But the week before that? Also, nothing that I can remember off hand.

My point in my initial post is to simply say what I've said before. There is nothing new under the sun in regards to the the motivations and contributions of the critics anymore. The bases have been covered. Thus my interest in why folks continue to come here as a community to bash the LDS Church and its members. I would think that would get old.

I suppose you might be going after new converts?

Regards,
MG

MG,

I’m curious if you think that other counter-cult groups should also cease discussion.

Honestly, I'm not familiar with these groups. I can only speak from my experience on this board.

Is there no value in preventing, say, a Scientologist from devoting their life to Scientology, assuming that Scientology is a dangerous and false cult?

My answer to this question would be yes. Scientology has a number of indicators of being a quasi-religious group that operates within locked and isolated communities and teaches 'doctrines' opposed to Christianity. From my perspective as a believer in Christ I believe that any group that purposefully leads people away from belief in Jesus Christ and/or a warped version (Course in Miracles for example) is 'anti-Christ' in a certain sense.

If Mormonism is similarly false, is there no value in guiding people away from another cult? And providing a bit of community to people who have learned the truth and lost theirs?

Mormonism, so called, is a church that makes the truth claim to be the restored Church of Jesus Christ and the repository of eternal truth from the same God that winds himself in and out of history through the Judeo-Christian tradition. I see that as something qualitatively different from Hubbard's goofy ideas perpetuated from his novels.

But I see your point. If someone truly believes the CofJCofLDS to be a cult on par with Scientology they ought to speak out against it. Of course I believe that you're barking up the wrong tree to compare Scientology to the fruits, works and saving doctrines of the LDS Church.

I suppose what I find interesting is that this board has the same cast of characters that wash, rinse, and repeat the same bashing against the church and its members over and over again. Rehash upon rehash.

I guess I'm just thinking that would get rather old among the folks that have been doing the bashing for years upon end. IHAQ comes to mind. I mean, what's up with that guy? What keeps him going in respect to keeping up with all things LDS (lates news, etc.) so that he can then show up and bash the church. I'd almost bet that he has some hidden agenda that keeps him up at night (literally?) trying to come up with the 'next big thing'. Over the years there are those here that have provided the next 'smoking gun' that will ultimately result in the demise of the LDS Church. Time after time after time resulting in a big fat zero.

But they don't give up. Somehow, they think they're going to come off the winner or change the game. That's simply wishful thinking. Disciples of Jesus Christ are, generally speaking, not going to be pushed off the path that leads to the Tree of Life.

Is that the motivation of the critics? Push hard enough and they can push a critical mass off the path and kill the Tree of Life?

That's not gonna happen folks. But there are those that will keep trying. And there will be casualties along the way.

This boards 'unwritten order of things' is to do just that. Lead folks away from the Tree of Life into the Great and Spacious Building. Nothing of value to add, only criticism of that they do not believe. It's almost as though it's a life's goal and all consuming passion. Think of RFM, Bill Reel, John Dehlin, Mormonish, and some of the newcomers. It's an obsession.

But again, if you are right, and these folks honestly see...as you do...the LDS Church as a cult, then I suppose that may be what motivates them day after day after day to do what they do.

If not the money.

But no one here is making money off of all their postings and church/member bashing. So I wonder WHY??

Regards,
MG

[Moksha]

Doing a drive-by trolling based on pent-up Mormon hubris is understandable, MG, but it will also be the same crowd when you come back wanting some attention. Be sweet, as they say in Relief Society, and posters will wish to play with you.

[Shulem]

You are not free, MG. You're a slave to the system. So bow down and say, "YES my master." The Church is your master and you will obey it.

Different strokes for different folks. I don't see it that way. The church is a means to an end. Striving to become a better disciple of Jesus Christ and remain unspotted from the world. That's not for everyone.

Being "like" Jesus doesn't interest me. I'm not interested in emulating past figures, whether real or imagined. I'm not interested in comparing myself to someone else in order to become the best I can be. I'm interested in being myself and being authentic in whatever way it makes me happy and hopefully others as well.

And it's not easy. We are human beings prone to sin. Jesus's Atonement creates a 'system' (as you like to put it) in which we can grow and flourish by overcoming the natural man and become men and women of Christ.

The definition and idea of "sin" is debatable and views can vary greatly from right to left. Same goes for the "natural man," that subject is vital to the whole human experience and opinions of what makes man natural vs. artificial (something else) is debatable. Again, I am not interested in being a man of Christ. He is not my guru. He is not my God. I don't believe in him and nor do I want such a person in my life.

You may be looking 'past the mark' as you judge members of the church and the organization itself. The whole purpose of the church is to bring souls to Christ and live lives of goodness and service to their fellowman and create families that love and serve each other in love and kindness. And to worship and respect God and His goodness. It's not rocket science.

Is it not fair that I judge members and the church because they judge me first? The Church accuses me of sins and I'm told I'm not good enough to save my own life without relying on a dead Jew I know not of, and I stand condemned ("damned") if I don't embrace this finger-pointing CHURCH.

I hope others don't embrace the Church. I really don't like organized religion!

[MG 2.0]

Doing a drive-by trolling based on pent-up Mormon hubris is understandable, MG, but it will also be the same crowd when you come back wanting some attention. Be sweet, as they say in Relief Society, and posters will wish to play with you.

Hey Moksha, it's not a matter of getting attention for me. I've stated previously why I post here periodically. It is not for self-aggrandizement. It is to offer a counter point to the prevailing winds that blow over this landscape.

Regards,
MG

[Marcus]

Different strokes for different folks. I don't see it that way. The church is a means to an end. Striving to become a better disciple of Jesus Christ and remain unspotted from the world. That's not for everyone.

Being "like" Jesus doesn't interest me. I'm not interested in emulating past figures, whether real or imagined. I'm not interested in comparing myself to someone else in order to become the best I can be. I'm interested in being myself and being authentic in whatever way it makes me happy and hopefully others as well.

And it's not easy. We are human beings prone to sin. Jesus's Atonement creates a 'system' (as you like to put it) in which we can grow and flourish by overcoming the natural man and become men and women of Christ.

The definition and idea of "sin" is debatable and views can vary greatly from right to left. Same goes for the "natural man," that subject is vital to the whole human experience and opinions of what makes man natural vs. artificial (something else) is debatable. Again, I am not interested in being a man of Christ. He is not my guru. He is not my God. I don't believe in him and nor do I want such a person in my life.

You may be looking 'past the mark' as you judge members of the church and the organization itself. The whole purpose of the church is to bring souls to Christ and live lives of goodness and service to their fellowman and create families that love and serve each other in love and kindness. And to worship and respect God and His goodness. It's not rocket science.

Is it not fair that I judge members and the church because they judge me first? The Church accuses me of sins and I'm told I'm not good enough to save my own life without relying on a dead Jew I know not of, and I stand condemned ("damned") if I don't embrace this finger-pointing CHURCH.

I hope others don't embrace the Church. I really don't like organized religion!

Amen, Shulem. Amen.

[drumdude]

But no one here is making money off of all their postings and church/member bashing. So I wonder WHY??

Regards,
MG

You left off the community aspect. Do you ever get tired of seeing the same friends in your ward all the time? I know when the church forced my former ward’s boundaries to change, no one was typically shouting for joy that they would be separated from the people they had grown to know and enjoy talking to.

It can really be as simple as the folks here enjoy the community.

[Shulem]

Amen, Shulem. Amen.

And let all the congregation say, "AMEN!"

[Rivendale]

Amen, Shulem. Amen.

And let all the congregation say, "AMEN!"

Hallelujah...

[MG 2.0]

But no one here is making money off of all their postings and church/member bashing. So I wonder WHY??

Regards,
MG

You left off the community aspect. Do you ever get tired of seeing the same friends in your ward all the time? I know when the church forced my former ward’s boundaries to change, no one was typically shouting for joy that they would be separated from the people they had grown to know and enjoy talking to.

It can really be as simple as the folks here enjoy the community.

Agree to disagree. I think there is something more to it.

Amen.

Regards,
MG

[drumdude]

You left off the community aspect. Do you ever get tired of seeing the same friends in your ward all the time? I know when the church forced my former ward’s boundaries to change, no one was typically shouting for joy that they would be separated from the people they had grown to know and enjoy talking to.

It can really be as simple as the folks here enjoy the community.

Agree to disagree. I think there is something more to it.

Amen.

Regards,
MG

In the Mormon worldview we are all agents of Satan, under his spell.

That’s an important characteristic of a cult, demonizing the critics of the cult.