Elder Robert C. Gay Uses The Priesthood To Resurrect A Gnat He Had Just Murdered

[sock puppet]

Drum dude, continuing my question I don't understand why a miracle means leaving the natural order. It seems to me that God created the natural order and would respect it and use it. Suspending the natural order would be chaotic. Wouldn't it make more sense to use it?

What would be miraculous about steps taken, albeit by God, that respect and use the natural order? Such would seem to be more of the mundane than the miraculous.

[Moksha]

Had Joseph Smith lived in our time, he might have said God was an A.I. living on a supercomputer planet.

This could still emerge out of the engineering department of BYU as a new religious movement.

[I Have Questions]

Why is Elder Gay trying to refute the notion that Jesus is the only resurrected being?
Or does the Church accept that other examples of resurrection exist?
Has Elder Gay attempted to resurrect deceased family members since the Gnat miracle? If not, why not? If yes, what have been the results?

[huckelberry]

Drum dude, continuing my question I don't understand why a miracle means leaving the natural order. It seems to me that God created the natural order and would respect it and use it. Suspending the natural order would be chaotic. Wouldn't it make more sense to use it?

What would be miraculous about steps taken, albeit by God, that respect and use the natural order? Such would seem to be more of the mundane than the miraculous.

Sock Puppet, I see my comment does not really clarify itself well. I was not thinking of limiting divine action to the mundane. It could include the extraordinary ,even resurrection. Perhaps I find the phrase suspending the natural order confusing. If I go on a walk and kick a stone out of the way am a suspending the natural order or working with it?

If God does something that changes things in a way that would not have happened without Gods action is that suspending the natural order? Well if what one means by natural order is what happens without Gods action then of course. That definition would apply to any sort of idea of god including god as a human with great authority.

[sock puppet]

What would be miraculous about steps taken, albeit by God, that respect and use the natural order? Such would seem to be more of the mundane than the miraculous.

Sock Puppet, I see my comment does not really clarify itself well. I was not thinking of limiting divine action to the mundane. It could include the extraordinary ,even resurrection. Perhaps I find the phrase suspending the natural order confusing. If I go on a walk and kick a stone out of the way am a suspending the natural order or working with it?

If God does something that changes things in a way that would not have happened without Gods action is that suspending the natural order? Well if what one means by natural order is what happens without Gods action then of course. That definition would apply to any sort of idea of god including god as a human with great authority.

Maybe I'm not tracking you, unless you are saying that anything God does is definitionally miraculous, even if it is, dare I say, mundane such as kicking a stone off of a path.

[MG 2.0]

Has Elder Gay attempted to resurrect deceased family members since the Gnat miracle?

I think that would make the Church News. I haven't seen any reference to something like this.

I listened to that talk. For him at that point in time the fact that the gnat revived and flew off his hand had real meaning to him. Whether the gnat was revived through natural means (the gnat was stunned temporarily) or an act of God, for Elder Gay the experience changed his life for the better in some respect.

However, I'm not one to discount the fact that God is in and through all things and can act as He wills. When He does act in the world I think it is because there is divine purpose behind it.

Sometimes the results look fishy to us NOT knowing the end from the beginning.

Regards,
MG

[Rivendale]

Has Elder Gay attempted to resurrect deceased family members since the Gnat miracle?

I think that would make the Church News. I haven't seen any reference to something like this.

I listened to that talk. For him at that point in time the fact that the gnat revived and flew off his hand had real meaning to him. Whether the gnat was revived through natural means (the gnat was stunned temporarily) or an act of God, for Elder Gay the experience changed his life for the better in some respect.

However, I'm not one to discount the fact that God is in and through all things and can act as He wills. When He does act in the world I think it is because there is divine purpose behind it.

Sometimes the results look fishy to us NOT knowing the end from the beginning.

Regards,
MG

When you find meaning in a stunned gnat and then use it as a talk I think you need new material. The people that let this ridiculous talk get through need to some kind of read the room training. There is a litany of talks that are absurd. Little factory? The abused must take some responsibility? Everything from Paul Dunn. Musket fire? Salamander letter? It never ends. If priesthood blessings were real they would have a kiosk set up at Primary Children's hospital but instead they hide in the forest of coincidences .

[Everybody Wang Chung]

[MG 2.0]

I think that would make the Church News. I haven't seen any reference to something like this.

I listened to that talk. For him at that point in time the fact that the gnat revived and flew off his hand had real meaning to him. Whether the gnat was revived through natural means (the gnat was stunned temporarily) or an act of God, for Elder Gay the experience changed his life for the better in some respect.

However, I'm not one to discount the fact that God is in and through all things and can act as He wills. When He does act in the world I think it is because there is divine purpose behind it.

Sometimes the results look fishy to us NOT knowing the end from the beginning.

Regards,
MG

When you find meaning in a stunned gnat and then use it as a talk I think you need new material. The people that let this ridiculous talk get through need to some kind of read the room training. There is a litany of talks that are absurd. Little factory? The abused must take some responsibility? Everything from Paul Dunn. Musket fire? Salamander letter? It never ends. If priesthood blessings were real they would have a kiosk set up at Primary Children's hospital but instead they hide in the forest of coincidences .

We live in a natural world with most of what happens happening...because it does. We often fail to recognize that. We interpret those things that happen through the lens of our own mindspace and subjective experiences. I think that applies to ecclesiastical leaders also. That's why we are encouraged to "go to God" for our own answers and to use our own minds.

There is very little in this world that I accept at face value without some investigation. As you get older (don't know your age) you may come to understand what I mean.

Regards,
MG

[Marcus]

When you find meaning in a stunned gnat and then use it as a talk I think you need new material. The people that let this ridiculous talk get through need to some kind of read the room training. There is a litany of talks that are absurd. Little factory? The abused must take some responsibility? Everything from Paul Dunn. Musket fire? Salamander letter? It never ends. If priesthood blessings were real they would have a kiosk set up at Primary Children's hospital but instead they hide in the forest of coincidences .

Exactly.