You guys are still at it! (why am I not surprised?)

[I Have Questions]

There are two questions that stem from MG's opening thread post that he still hasn't adequately answered.

The first one is for him to explain how he has concluded that he spends more time on the activities he lists than the rest of the board, given that he spends more time posting here than any other poster (Note: He's been posting on Mormon message boards for more than 20 years). So that's 1 unanswered question.

I'm not saying that I haven't spent a significant amount of time here. I was suggesting that those that are unbelievers might find better things to do with their time.

the second unanswered question is about his suggestion that people should go around hugging kids. He has mentioned that, as an adult male school teacher, he went around hugging the children. In schools that's a red flag as it is indicative of grooming behaviour. Even if MG wasn't intending on grooming the children for himself to abuse, he was desensitising the kids to the dangers posed by a nefarious unrelated adult male hugging a child. The same applies if he is going around on a Sunday hugging kids at church. It's dangerous behaviour one way or another.

So MG, please explain what kids, specifically, you were advocating board members go and hug?

I'm leaving that up to you. I suppose I was making an assumption that board members would be able to tell the difference between appropriate contact with children and that which is inappropriate. Maybe I was mistaken in making that assumption.

The million dollar question is how do YOU, IHAQ, define a hug? I gave you mine earlier. How would you define it?

IHAQ, you live in the UK. I suppose this whole WOKE crap has gone to everyone's head. Grooming?

That's sick. Is that where your mind goes? As I said earlier, you live in a different 'mindspace' than I do.

By the way, back when I was teaching, hand on the shoulder or arm around the back with a pat of "good job kiddo!" were fairly infrequent (reason below). Even at that time there were more instances in our school district of inappropriate behaviors with children. We would talk about that during faculty meetings and lunch as to the fact that some 'bad apples' had ruined things for those that simply knew that children, at times, need someone to reach out and give them a pat on the shoulder or a quick 'side hug' if the child comes in after recess and wanted to give a 'full on' hug to the teacher.

Any physical contact of any sort was NEVER given when alone with a child. Obviously.

Granted, male teachers are the ones that have mainly been in the news and as a result the WOKE crowd looks at every instance of adults making any sort of physical contact and instance of grooming.

How insane. And you've played right into it.

Again, I thought it went without saying that you and others would be able to determine for yourselves what appropriate behavior would be in regards to giving a child a hug.

And here we are. Going in for a rehash now?

Regards,
MG

A West Jordan man was charged Tuesday with sexually assaulting a teenage girl when he was a local church leader more than 20 years ago.

Armando Flores, 69, is charged in 3rd District Court with two counts of rape and object rape, first-degree felonies.

Flores was convicted of sexual battery in 2012 in another case that involved a 17-year-old girl from his congregation, charging documents state. He was sentenced to what worked out to be four months in jail and was placed on three years of probation.

The woman in the new case told police she was sexually assaulted by Flores between 2002 and 2004 when she was 14 years old.

She told investigators that her family had joined The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and moved to Utah. "Flores was the local (branch) president and was quite prevalent in (the teen's) life," the charging documents state.

He is accused of sexually assaulting the teen at his residence, while teaching her to drive and after taking her away from school to a park.

The teen later wrote a letter to Flores "thanking him for the things he had done for her family, but confronted him on sexually assaulting her," the charges state, adding that Flores told her that he "put her letter in a box where he keeps his 'naughty treasures' that he keeps hidden from his wife," the charges say.

The charges were filed on Feb. 20 but kept under seal as police looked for him. His warrant was unsealed Tuesday so it could "be made available to all airports and border crossings," as investigators have been unable to locate him and believe he is a flight risk.

What are the odds that this started with hugs?

It’s not an isolated case.

Nearly 100 current and former California residents have recently sued The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints over allegations of childhood sexual abuse, alleging in related but separate lawsuits filed across the state that they were assaulted by leaders of their local congregations over the past several decades while the Utah-based church did nothing to halt the abuse.

And that’s just the current ones in California. The Church has a massive problem with this kind of things and MG is going round telling people to hug kids. It’s unbelievable.

[I Have Questions]

How about you, MG? Do you you partake of those sins or have you denounced them? I really believe you are a coward. Prove otherwise and I'll apologize. Come into the box and talk with me. Tell me what you really think. Don't hold back.

OK. I believe in a Heavenly Father and that I am created in His image. That's the God I worship along with most all other LDS church members.

No. you don’t. If you did then you’d stop living by convenience and start living by covenant. You’d serve a senior mission if you really did worship the Mormon God as you claim to.

[MG 2.0]

OK. I believe in a Heavenly Father and that I am created in His image. That's the God I worship along with most all other LDS church members.

No. you don’t. If you did then you’d stop living by convenience and start living by covenant. You’d serve a senior mission if you really did worship the Mormon God as you claim to.

You are an interesting character, IHAQ. Sitting there on top of your perch of unbelief and pointing fingers at the believers and pronouncing judgement upon them.

That seems to be a common feature with critics. I guess that's why they're called critics.

You, I must say, seem to be quite adept/proficient at it.

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

It’s not an isolated case.

Nearly 100 current and former California residents have recently sued The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints over allegations of childhood sexual abuse, alleging in related but separate lawsuits filed across the state that they were assaulted by leaders of their local congregations over the past several decades while the Utah-based church did nothing to halt the abuse.

And that’s just the current ones in California. The Church has a massive problem with this kind of things and MG is going round telling people to hug kids. It’s unbelievable.

I also find it interesting and somewhat disturbing that you have a tendency to make gross generalizations.

Even after my postings you're unable to see me as an individual. You lump me in with the 'bad apples'. It's almost as if I'm talking to a brick wall.

That is unfair.

Wouldn't/don't you prefer to be looked at as an individual?

You seem to see everything through the lens of 'the church'.

Regards,
MG

[I Have Questions]

By the way, back when I was teaching, hand on the shoulder or arm around the back with a pat of "good job kiddo!" were fairly infrequent (reason below). Even at that time there were more instances in our school district of inappropriate behaviors with children. We would talk about that during faculty meetings and lunch as to the fact that some 'bad apples' had ruined things for those that simply knew that children, at times, need someone to reach out and give them a pat on the shoulder or a quick 'side hug' if the child comes in after recess and wanted to give a 'full on' hug to the teacher.

Any physical contact of any sort was NEVER given when alone with a child. Obviously.

You’re now reframing. I note that you’ve changed from advocating the adult “go hug a child” to a specific scenario of a child coming to a teacher for a hug, and the teacher allowing a pat on the shoulder or a quick side hug.

You still haven’t explained what, specifically, you were advocating when you told board members to “go hug a child”. It certainly wasn’t meant specifically for how teachers should respond when children in their class came looking for a hug.

As for the comment “some bad apples had ruined things” well, that’s deeply disturbing. Surely as a teacher you would see the safety of the children as paramount, and be fully supportive of any measures that helped stopped further abuses like the ones that “ruined things for you”? Why were you putting your need to hug children above the need for children to be kept safe?

[MG 2.0]

Surely as a teacher you would see the safety of the children as paramount, and be fully supportive of any measures that helped stopped further abuses like the ones that “ruined things for you”?

Most definitely.

Where are you going with this?

IHAQ, children have needs. Have you had children of your own? Do you know what I'm talking about? As teachers part of our job was to help children feel safe.

I'm not talking about going and giving support and recognizing any random kid. That would be weird.

Again, where are you going with this?

Of course I'm supportive of measures that protect kids.

Regards,
MG

[Shulem]

Wouldn't/don't you prefer to be looked at as an individual?

You seem to see everything through the lens of 'the church'.

I prefer to be looked at as an individual in my own right.

I would think the ancient Egyptians felt the same way but the lens of the Mormon church under the direction of its founder focused on perverting and skewing an ancient record in order to deceive the members.

Isn't that right, MG? [ ] yes [ ] no

Who mutilated my face?

[Marcus]

Granted, male teachers are the ones that have mainly been in the news and as a result the WOKE crowd looks at every instance of adults making any sort of physical contact and instance of grooming

This is where is becomes painfully obvious that you don't understand what grooming is, or the best practices re children's care. You want to be allowed to engage in behaviors defined as grooming, because, as you put it, "you can trust me." And why is that? Because YOU have decided that YOU are trustworthy and others should accept what YOU say about YOURSELF. So YOU should be allowed to groom children for the benefits YOU receive, regardless of the impact on children. Do you realize what message you are sending?

But you think "grooming" is a Woke concept. SMH.

[MG 2.0]

Granted, male teachers are the ones that have mainly been in the news and as a result the WOKE crowd looks at every instance of adults making any sort of physical contact and instance of grooming

This is where is becomes painfully obvious that you don't understand what grooming is, or the best practices re children's care. You want to be allowed to engage in behaviors defined as grooming, because, as you put it, "you can trust me." And why is that? Because YOU have decided that YOU are trustworthy and others should accept what YOU say about YOURSELF. So YOU should be allowed to groom children for the benefits YOU receive, regardless of the impact on children. Do you realize what message you are sending?

But you think "grooming" is a Woke concept. SMH.

The term "grooming" has become highly politicized and controversial. It is being used more frequently in a derogatory manner by associating it with false accusations of child abuse or indoctrination. This misuse has increased in recent years, especially in the context of political debates and social media discourse.

WOKE.

Those days are leaving us behind. Adults can be trusted in most cases to do the right thing. There are exceptions, of course.

You can be trusted to do the right thing I'm sure. Even when it might include reinforcing a child's self-worth/esteem by giving them a pat on the back or a squeeze on the shoulder to say, "I care about you." (I know, you're probably reading this with an underlying fear that it means something other than what it actually means).

That, Marcus, is what WOKE has done to our society writ large. Ypu might consider yourself to either be a convert and/or a victim of this false narrative. But we can start to see indicators that those days are going away and we can get back to some sense of normalcy and human kindness.

It's gotten SO crazy.

My guess is there are many here who agree with me but can't speak up but for fear of not falling in line with a false narrative.

Regards,
MG

[Marcus]

This is where is becomes painfully obvious that you don't understand what grooming is, or the best practices re children's care. You want to be allowed to engage in behaviors defined as grooming, because, as you put it, "you can trust me." And why is that? Because YOU have decided that YOU are trustworthy and others should accept what YOU say about YOURSELF. So YOU should be allowed to groom children for the benefits YOU receive, regardless of the impact on children. Do you realize what message you are sending?

But you think "grooming" is a Woke concept. SMH.

The term "grooming" has become highly politicized and controversial. It is being used more frequently in a derogatory manner by associating it with false accusations of child abuse or indoctrination. This misuse has increased in recent years, especially in the context of political debates and social media discourse.

WOKE.

Those days are leaving us behind. Adults can be trusted in most cases to do the right thing. There are exceptions, of course.

You can be trusted to do the right thing I'm sure. Even when it might include reinforcing a child's self-worth/esteem by giving them a pat on the back or a squeeze on the shoulder to say, "I care about you." (I know, you're probably reading this with an underlying fear that it means something other than what it actually means).

That, Marcus, is what WOKE has done to our society writ large. Ypu might consider yourself to either be a convert and/or a victim of this false narrative. But we can start to see indicators that those days are going away and we can get back to some sense of normalcy and human kindness.

It's gotten SO crazy.

My guess is there are many here who agree with me but can't speak up but for fear of not falling in line with a false narrative.

Regards,
MG

BS.