While the LDS Brethren sit on their hands and remain silent

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sock puppet
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While the LDS Brethren sit on their hands and remain silent

Post by sock puppet »

Pope Francis unleashes a historic attack on the Trump administration over its cruel treatment of migrants — and takes specific aim at remarks made by J.D. Vance, a Catholic convert.

So-called Christians in the MAGA movement are melting down over this...

The Pope, head of the Catholic Church, issued a rebuke of Donald Trump's mass deportation plan, stating that it removes the migrants of their inherent dignity as people and "will end badly."

Usually one to abstain from commenting directly on the internal politics of individual countries, Francis made his new remarks in a letter addressing U.S. bishops.

In it, he invoked the Bible's Book of Exodus and said that God is "always close, incarnate, migrant and refugee" and pointed out that Jesus Christ was "expelled from his own land" when his family fled to Egypt and had to "take refuge in a society and a culture foreign to his own."

Putting fake Christians to shame, Pope Francis went on to state that Jesus loved "everyone with a universal love" and taught us to see the"dignity of every human being, without exception."

"Thus, all the Christian faithful and people of good will are called upon to consider the legitimacy of norms and public policies in the light of the dignity of the person and his or her fundamental rights, not vice versa," the pope wrote.

He then turned his pen towards addressing the United States directly.

"I have followed closely the major crisis that is taking place in the United States with the initiation of a program of mass deportations," wrote Pope Francis.

"The rightly formed conscience cannot fail to make a critical judgment and express its disagreement with any measure that tacitly or explicitly identifies the illegal status of some migrants with criminality," he continued.

"At the same time, one must recognize the right of a nation to defend itself and keep communities safe from those who have committed violent or serious crimes while in the country or prior to arrival."

"That said, the act of deporting people who in many cases have left their own land for reasons of extreme poverty, insecurity, exploitation, persecution or serious deterioration of the environment, damages the dignity of many men and women, and of entire families, and places them in a state of particular vulnerability and defenselessness," wrote the pope.

It was the next part of the letter that has really infuriated MAGA supporters. Recently, Vice President J.D. Vance — who was baptized and confirmed into the Catholic Church in 2019 — attacked the Church's compassionate teachings on immigration.

Proving that he either doesn't understand Catholic theology or would prefer to cherry-pick what he likes and doesn't, Vance butchered a medieval concept known as "ordo amoris" or the "order of love."

"As an American leader, but also just as an American citizen, your compassion belongs first to your fellow citizens," Vance told Fox News. "That doesn’t mean you hate people from outside of your own borders, but there’s this old-school [concept] — and I think it’s a very Christian concept, by the way — that you love your family, and then you love your neighbor, and then you love your community, and then you love your fellow citizens in your own country, and then, after that, you can focus and prioritize the rest of the world."

Of course, the idea that one should love those closest to you doesn't mean that you shouldn't love people from other countries. Vance shamelessly twisted the meaning to suit his party's xenophobic views. St. Augustine, who pioneered the concept that Vance was referencing, certainly didn't advocate for an authoritarian mass migration program.

In his letter, Pope Francis wrote that "Christian love is not a concentric expansion of interests that little by little extend to other persons and groups," a direct and blunt rebuke of Vance's claims.

"In other words: the human person is not a mere individual, relatively expansive, with some philanthropic feelings!" the pope continued. "The human person is a subject with dignity who, through the constitutive relationship with all, especially with the poorest, can gradually mature in his identity and vocation. The true ordo amoris that must be promoted is that which we discover by meditating constantly on the parable of the 'Good Samaritan', that is, by meditating on the love that builds a fraternity open to all, without exception."

Francis warned against deploying "an ideological criterion that distorts social life and imposes the will of the strongest as the criterion of truth."

He went on to urge the bishops in the United States to continue working "closely with migrants and refugees, proclaiming Jesus Christ" and "promoting fundamental human rights."

"God will richly reward all that you do for the protection and defense of those who are considered less valuable, less important or less human!" he added.

Pope Francis then turned his attention to the entire Catholic Church, urging its followers "not to give in to narratives that discriminate against and cause unnecessary suffering to our migrant and refugee brothers and sisters."

He concluded by calling for all of us to work towards a "a society that is more fraternal, inclusive and respectful of the dignity of all."

In other words, we need to build a world where MAGA is not the law of the land.
My, my, my. 21st Century Christian Nationalism going toe-to-toe with a four-Gospels Christianity. The contrast is quite stark.

And what say you, the Mormon Brethren? [crickets chirping.]
"Only the atheist realizes how morally objectionable it is for survivors of catastrophe to believe themselves spared by a loving god, while this same God drowned infants in their cribs." Sam Harris
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Re: While the LDS Brethren sit on their hands and remain silent

Post by Analytics »

If the Brethren said something about MAGA, it might offend some members, and that could hurt tithing revenue.

Isn’t that essentially the same reason DCP is mostly silent?
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sock puppet
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Re: While the LDS Brethren sit on their hands and remain silent

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Analytics wrote:
Fri Mar 28, 2025 5:05 pm
If the Brethren said something about MAGA, it might offend some members, and that could hurt tithing revenue.

Isn’t that essentially the same reason DCP is mostly silent?
The Brethren know that too many Mormons would break ranks and leave if the Brethren essentially made them choose between MAGA and Mormonism. Personally, in the last 9 years or so, I've been surprised about how many mega-Mo's have indicated MAGA means more to them than does "the Church."
"Only the atheist realizes how morally objectionable it is for survivors of catastrophe to believe themselves spared by a loving god, while this same God drowned infants in their cribs." Sam Harris
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Re: While the LDS Brethren sit on their hands and remain silent

Post by I Have Questions »

It will be interesting to see if the leadership of the Church takes the opportunity at General Conference to speak loudly and plainly about the moral injustices being enacted by the Trump administration.

If they fail to do so then it would appear that The Pope is God’s one true spokesperson on earth.
Premise 1. Eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable.
Premise 2. The best evidence for the Book of Mormon is eyewitness testimony.
Conclusion. Therefore, the best evidence for the Book of Mormon is notoriously unreliable.
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Re: While the LDS Brethren sit on their hands and remain silent

Post by drumdude »

Priorities. They have no problem speaking as nauseum about gay marriage but when a real threat to the free world appears they have nothing to say.
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Re: While the LDS Brethren sit on their hands and remain silent

Post by Philo Sofee »

sock puppet wrote:
Fri Mar 28, 2025 7:07 pm
Analytics wrote:
Fri Mar 28, 2025 5:05 pm
If the Brethren said something about MAGA, it might offend some members, and that could hurt tithing revenue.

Isn’t that essentially the same reason DCP is mostly silent?
The Brethren know that too many Mormons would break ranks and leave if the Brethren essentially made them choose between MAGA and Mormonism. Personally, in the last 9 years or so, I've been surprised about how many mega-Mo's have indicated MAGA means more to them than does "the Church."
Well, since Jesus never came back, Donald has become him for MAGA folk.
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Re: While the LDS Brethren sit on their hands and remain silent

Post by Philo Sofee »

I Have Questions wrote:
Fri Mar 28, 2025 8:10 pm
It will be interesting to see if the leadership of the Church takes the opportunity at General Conference to speak loudly and plainly about the moral injustices being enacted by the Trump administration.

If they fail to do so then it would appear that The Pope is God’s one true spokesperson on earth.
Heh.....damn you man! Now you have given me a reason to watch this conference.
Philo Sofee
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Re: While the LDS Brethren sit on their hands and remain silent

Post by Philo Sofee »

drumdude wrote:
Fri Mar 28, 2025 8:55 pm
Priorities. They have no problem speaking as nauseum about gay marriage but when a real threat to the free world appears they have nothing to say.
It's because Donald Jesus gives them tax free status, and money appears to always be more appreciated than God, with the rich. And the church ain't nuthin if not FILTHY TOTALLY RICH.
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Re: While the LDS Brethren sit on their hands and remain silent

Post by Moksha »

My guess is that 13 of the Brethren support Trump. The only members not supporting Trump are a few Democrats, Dr. Peterson, and those members outside of the US. Not sure how many outside the US follow world events.
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Re: While the LDS Brethren sit on their hands and remain silent

Post by drumdude »

Mitt Romney did a lot of hard work speaking out against Trump and trying to create a space within the Republican Party for sanity. The Mormon church could have taken a very small risk and followed that path blazed by Romney.

But as BYP points out, they chose to follow mammon.

Imagine what a powerful force the Mormon church could have been if it stood as a stalwart conservative anti-MAGA organization. Decades of influence and wealth built up to do some real good in the world. This is their chance to change the world for the better, and they could not be more silent.
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