That isn't my quoteMoksha wrote: ↑Sun Apr 13, 2025 9:25 amI am glad that it became enlarged via Paul to include the gentiles, thus ensuring the Pauline version of Christianity did not become extinct.
(Quote attribution removed … -c-)As Jesus said, He came to seek and to save that which was lost.
Jesus spoke much like Shulem does when he is addressing LDS apologists.
.I confess that I had never before noticed that implication of the idea of the 'Restoration' of the church by Smith, and the associated idea of the 'Great Apostasy' which, I think, was supposed to have taken place not long after Jesus' ascension. Preach My Gospel says this on page 35:I Have Questions wrote: ↑Sat Apr 12, 2025 7:24 amAt Conference Jeff said…That being the case, and because there was a great apostasy, Jesus failed in his mission to have his message continue on after his death.Jesus began the last year of His mortal life by intensifying the training of His Apostles. If His message and His Church were to survive Him, more had to be pressed into the hearts of 12 very ordinary men who had known Him for scarcely 24 months.
That looks like the GA happened within the half-century or so after the mortal ministry of Jesus, by which time those who had known him personally would have been dead. So much for the success of the direct ministry of the son of God. Jesus said:The Great Apostasy
After the death of Jesus Christ, wicked people persecuted the Apostles and Church
members and killed many of them. With the death of the Apostles, priesthood keys and
the presiding priesthood authority were taken from the earth. The Apostles had kept the
doctrines of the gospel pure and maintained the order and standard of worthiness for
Church members. Without the Apostles, over time the doctrines were corrupted, and
unauthorized changes were made in Church organization and priesthood ordinances,
such as baptism and conferring the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Without revelation and priesthood authority, people relied on human wisdom to
interpret the scriptures and the principles and ordinances of the gospel of Jesus Christ.
False ideas were taught as truth. Much of the knowledge of the true character and nature
of God the Father, His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost was lost. The doctrines of faith
in Jesus Christ, repentance, baptism, and the gift of the Holy Ghost became distorted or
forgotten. The priesthood authority given to Christ’s Apostles was no longer present on
the earth. This apostasy eventually led to the emergence of many churches.
How well did that work out, according to Joseph Smith? So badly, it seems, that it could only be fixed by Yankee know-how centuries later. Joseph Smith showed how it should have been done in the first place, and everything was well and truly fixed for good! No mistakes this time!!Matthew 16:18
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
To your point, Chap, this is what Joseph Smith claimed:Chap wrote: ↑Sun Apr 13, 2025 9:04 pmI confess that I had never before noticed that implication of the idea of the 'Restoration' of the church by Smith, and the associated idea of the 'Great Apostasy' which, I think, was supposed to have taken place not long after Jesus' ascension. Preach My Gospel says this on page 35:I Have Questions wrote: ↑Sat Apr 12, 2025 7:24 amAt Conference Jeff said…That being the case, and because there was a great apostasy, Jesus failed in his mission to have his message continue on after his death.
That looks like the GA happened within the half-century or so after the mortal ministry of Jesus, by which time those who had known him personally would have been dead. So much for the success of the direct ministry of the son of God. Jesus said:The Great Apostasy
After the death of Jesus Christ, wicked people persecuted the Apostles and Church
members and killed many of them. With the death of the Apostles, priesthood keys and
the presiding priesthood authority were taken from the earth. The Apostles had kept the
doctrines of the gospel pure and maintained the order and standard of worthiness for
Church members. Without the Apostles, over time the doctrines were corrupted, and
unauthorized changes were made in Church organization and priesthood ordinances,
such as baptism and conferring the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Without revelation and priesthood authority, people relied on human wisdom to
interpret the scriptures and the principles and ordinances of the gospel of Jesus Christ.
False ideas were taught as truth. Much of the knowledge of the true character and nature
of God the Father, His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost was lost. The doctrines of faith
in Jesus Christ, repentance, baptism, and the gift of the Holy Ghost became distorted or
forgotten. The priesthood authority given to Christ’s Apostles was no longer present on
the earth. This apostasy eventually led to the emergence of many churches.
How well did that work out, according to Joseph Smith? So badly, it seems, that it could only be fixed by Yankee know-how centuries later. Joseph Smith showed how it should have been done in the first place, and everything was well and truly fixed for good! No mistakes this time!!Matthew 16:18
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Poor old Jesus. What a loser!
The work of salvation and exaltation is a collaborative effort. Jesus is the file leader. The Creator. The ensample. The Savior. The lawgiver. Etc.
I’m speaking here of Joseph Smith and the restoration. Only a vanishingly small percentage of Christians have bought into the idea that they need the Mormon DLC pack.
No, it was spoken by Jesus in Luke 19:10.
There aren't very many times in Judeo-Christian history where there weren't men/women involved in God's/Christ's work. Mainly prophets and apostles/Priests. Sure, there are Christians that believe that it's the Bible and them. Period. Nothing...at all...between them and God. But that wasn't the pattern throughout the ages.drumdude wrote: ↑Mon Apr 14, 2025 3:01 amI’m speaking here of Joseph Smith and the restoration. Only a vanishingly small percentage of Christians have bought into the idea that they need the Mormon DLC pack.
(DLC is short for Downloadable Content, usually sold as an add-on or expansion to a popular video game)
Are you saying Jesus needs sin as much as sinners need Jesus? A symbiotic relationship--each needs the other?
No. Not quite. Guess again.sock puppet wrote: ↑Wed Apr 16, 2025 4:04 pmAre you saying Jesus needs sin as much as sinners need Jesus? A symbiotic relationship--each needs the other?
Without sin, wouldn't Jesus be all dressed with no place to go?MG 2.0 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 16, 2025 5:42 pmNo. Not quite. Guess again.sock puppet wrote: ↑Wed Apr 16, 2025 4:04 pm
Are you saying Jesus needs sin as much as sinners need Jesus? A symbiotic relationship--each needs the other?
Regards,
MG