LDS Church urges members to call out racism in their congregations

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I Have Questions
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Re: LDS Church urges members to call out racism in their congregations

Post by I Have Questions »

Marcus wrote:
Sat Apr 05, 2025 8:38 am
Moksha wrote:
Thu Apr 03, 2025 3:52 am
More likely that Joseph included this imaginary tale of being cursed with black skin as part of the racism of his day. Christians at that time were struggling to justify their support of slavery.

Tales of God sanctioned theft and murder and racist skin curses do not pass muster no matter whether these "well read" members have progressed through the entire Dick and Jane series.
Far, far, far more likely than "his brother hurt his feelings...therefore racism."

Nor does the Fairmormon link provided by the poster use that kind of reasoning, simplistic as it is. The Fairmormon quote simply says 'how can the Book of Mormon be racist when the story shows that once that race started acting properly, they were fully accepted?'
The Church could explain it. They could explain what being marked with “a skin of blackness” means, if it doesn’t not mean what it obviously says. The Church could explain that Nephi was a racist, and that Nephi was wrong to view his relatives that way. The Church could reword it to remove the racial offence. But the Church does nothing. It lets it stand unchanged. It lets white supremacists in the pews feel justified in their racism - what The Book of Mormon says Trump's what Oaks is saying about members need to call each other out over racism. The Church could explain why SWK could see dark skinned children turning lighter in skin colour the more they studied Mormonism.

The Church does nothing to put its own house in order with regards to racism in its scriptures. So regardless of what Oaks says, the Church must be happy for the racist message within its scriptures. They keep it in there, so they stand by it.
Premise 1. Eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable.
Premise 2. The best evidence for the Book of Mormon is eyewitness testimony.
Conclusion. Therefore, the best evidence for the Book of Mormon is notoriously unreliable.
MG 2.0
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Re: LDS Church urges members to call out racism in their congregations

Post by MG 2.0 »

I Have Questions wrote:
Wed Apr 16, 2025 10:15 pm
...the Church must be happy for the racist message within its scriptures.
Sheesh.

Regards,
MG
Marcus
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Re: LDS Church urges members to call out racism in their congregations

Post by Marcus »

I Have Questions wrote:
Wed Apr 16, 2025 10:15 pm
Marcus wrote:
Sat Apr 05, 2025 8:38 am
Far, far, far more likely than "his brother hurt his feelings...therefore racism."

Nor does the Fairmormon link provided by the poster use that kind of reasoning, simplistic as it is. The Fairmormon quote simply says 'how can the Book of Mormon be racist when the story shows that once that race started acting properly, they were fully accepted?'
The Church could explain it. They could explain what being marked with “a skin of blackness” means, if it doesn’t not mean what it obviously says. The Church could explain that Nephi was a racist, and that Nephi was wrong to view his relatives that way. The Church could reword it to remove the racial offence. But the Church does nothing. It lets it stand unchanged. It lets white supremacists in the pews feel justified in their racism - what The Book of Mormon says Trump's what Oaks is saying about members need to call each other out over racism. The Church could explain why SWK could see dark skinned children turning lighter in skin colour the more they studied Mormonism.

The Church does nothing to put its own house in order with regards to racism in its scriptures. So regardless of what Oaks says, the Church must be happy for the racist message within its scriptures. They keep it in there, so they stand by it.
This is what always comes to mind. Why don't they clear this up?
I Have Questions
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Re: LDS Church urges members to call out racism in their congregations

Post by I Have Questions »

Marcus wrote:
Wed Apr 16, 2025 10:25 pm
I Have Questions wrote:
Wed Apr 16, 2025 10:15 pm
The Church could explain it. They could explain what being marked with “a skin of blackness” means, if it doesn’t not mean what it obviously says. The Church could explain that Nephi was a racist, and that Nephi was wrong to view his relatives that way. The Church could reword it to remove the racial offence. But the Church does nothing. It lets it stand unchanged. It lets white supremacists in the pews feel justified in their racism - what The Book of Mormon says Trump's what Oaks is saying about members need to call each other out over racism. The Church could explain why SWK could see dark skinned children turning lighter in skin colour the more they studied Mormonism.

The Church does nothing to put its own house in order with regards to racism in its scriptures. So regardless of what Oaks says, the Church must be happy for the racist message within its scriptures. They keep it in there, so they stand by it.
This is what always comes to mind. Why don't they clear this up?
They approve the message it sends. If they didn’t they’d remove it. The First Presidency has only ever been populated by white men.
Premise 1. Eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable.
Premise 2. The best evidence for the Book of Mormon is eyewitness testimony.
Conclusion. Therefore, the best evidence for the Book of Mormon is notoriously unreliable.
MG 2.0
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Posts: 5217
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2021 4:45 pm

Re: LDS Church urges members to call out racism in their congregations

Post by MG 2.0 »

Marcus wrote:
Wed Apr 16, 2025 10:25 pm
I Have Questions wrote:
Wed Apr 16, 2025 10:15 pm
The Church could explain it. They could explain what being marked with “a skin of blackness” means, if it doesn’t not mean what it obviously says. The Church could explain that Nephi was a racist, and that Nephi was wrong to view his relatives that way. The Church could reword it to remove the racial offence. But the Church does nothing. It lets it stand unchanged. It lets white supremacists in the pews feel justified in their racism - what The Book of Mormon says Trump's what Oaks is saying about members need to call each other out over racism. The Church could explain why SWK could see dark skinned children turning lighter in skin colour the more they studied Mormonism.

The Church does nothing to put its own house in order with regards to racism in its scriptures. So regardless of what Oaks says, the Church must be happy for the racist message within its scriptures. They keep it in there, so they stand by it.
This is what always comes to mind. Why don't they clear this up?
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=159663&start=10

This is one of those so-called issues that has been handed off to the scholars. Along with evolutionary theory and a few other things I could mention. The link I've provide above linking to a page in this very thread has four names that you can use as springboards to do your own research.

As it is, you seem to want the Brethren to exercise editorial control over what ancient prophets said. Or to make excuses for them.

That's not the way it works...as much as you might like it to be.

It's interesting, many believing members of the church seem to be more open to scriptural exegesis than you, as a critic. You would think it might be the other way around.

Regards,
MG
Marcus
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Re: LDS Church urges members to call out racism in their congregations

Post by Marcus »

I Have Questions wrote:
Wed Apr 16, 2025 10:36 pm
Marcus wrote:
Wed Apr 16, 2025 10:25 pm
This is what always comes to mind. Why don't they clear this up?
They approve the message it sends. If they didn’t they’d remove it. The First Presidency has only ever been populated by white men.
Yes. Old white men who have surrounded themselves with compliant men and women.
MG 2.0
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Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2021 4:45 pm

Re: LDS Church urges members to call out racism in their congregations

Post by MG 2.0 »

Marcus wrote:
Wed Apr 16, 2025 10:50 pm
I Have Questions wrote:
Wed Apr 16, 2025 10:36 pm
They approve the message it sends. If they didn’t they’d remove it. The First Presidency has only ever been populated by white men.
Yes. Old white men who have surrounded themselves with compliant men and women.
One might think that you have a certain variety/species of 'reverse racism' in you comments concerning "old white men". Do you have something against elderly white men that have had a lifetime of proved service and devotion to the Lord and His church?

If so, why?

Also, when you say "compliant men and women" do you mean that these men and women are disciples of Jesus Christ following his injunction to be one or they are not His?

Or is it something else?

Regards,
MG
Marcus
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Re: LDS Church urges members to call out racism in their congregations

Post by Marcus »

Bypassing the troll:
I Have Questions wrote:
Wed Apr 16, 2025 10:36 pm
Marcus wrote:
Wed Apr 16, 2025 10:25 pm
This is what always comes to mind. Why don't they clear this up?
They approve the message it sends. If they didn’t they’d remove it. The First Presidency has only ever been populated by white men.
Yes. Old white men who have surrounded themselves with compliant men and women.
MG 2.0
God
Posts: 5217
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2021 4:45 pm

Re: LDS Church urges members to call out racism in their congregations

Post by MG 2.0 »

Marcus wrote:
Thu Apr 17, 2025 2:10 am
Bypassing the troll:
I Have Questions wrote:
Wed Apr 16, 2025 10:36 pm
They approve the message it sends. If they didn’t they’d remove it. The First Presidency has only ever been populated by white men.
Yes. Old white men who have surrounded themselves with compliant men and women.
We heard you the first time.

Regards,
MG
I Have Questions
God
Posts: 1794
Joined: Tue May 23, 2023 9:09 am

Re: LDS Church urges members to call out racism in their congregations

Post by I Have Questions »

Marcus wrote:
Thu Apr 17, 2025 2:10 am
Bypassing the troll:
I Have Questions wrote:
Wed Apr 16, 2025 10:36 pm
They approve the message it sends. If they didn’t they’d remove it. The First Presidency has only ever been populated by white men.
Yes. Old white men who have surrounded themselves with compliant men and women.
Bypassing the troll.
Premise 1. Eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable.
Premise 2. The best evidence for the Book of Mormon is eyewitness testimony.
Conclusion. Therefore, the best evidence for the Book of Mormon is notoriously unreliable.
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