Conference talk on abortion

[Marcus]

The big story here is not the false claim about Kimball, which is silly in the extreme, but the idea that one polygamist man could be an effective father for the children of all his many wives (Kimball had 43). The neglect that follows the demographic imbalance of polygamy leads to a lot of evils. Failures in the home, and dangerous repercussions for the community. One man creates many sons, many of whom will receive little attention and even scanter opportunity for a marriage of their own, and then trouble ensues. The great riches of one man, as is so often the case, lead to the poverty of many men and disorder in the community.

The account of one of Brigham Young's non favorite wives and their children having to schedule meetings in order to beg for money while living in near destitution, while Young and his favorite wives and their children lived in luxury is both heart-wrenching and sickening.

Several members of my extended family are really into genealogy and family history, so I regularly get sent the transcription of family journals, or compiled family histories, and most often lately, individual biographies. I really appreciate the work put into this!

However, some of them are utterly heartbreaking to read. There are stories of second wives who were banished when their husband died and they were left to scrape out an existence for themselves and their (invariably, many, many) children. Or the abandoned first wives whose husbands were sent off to a new location with their (much younger) second wife. That one resulted in my grandfather never seeing his mother again after age 17.

The worst was the history of a woman, still under 30, who was pregnant with her sixth child when her husband went to salt lake for a week-long vacation, to "court" the 16 year old who would be his second wife. This vacation was arranged and paid for by his family. She had to witness his wedding when they came back, and then died several weeks later, in child birth. Her husband's child bride gave birth eight months later.

Even my hard core Mormon relative, who wrote up her history, conceded she died of a broken heart. It was devastating to read.

But yes, That's the legacy Young and Smith have left us.

[MG 2.0]

Thank you for bringing that to my attention...as if I didn't already know that this phenomenon is something we ALL deal with.

Including, of course, yourself.

Would you agree?

We should recognize this in ourselves along with others.

I'm simply pointing out that in this instance Wang fell prey to 'siloing'.

Sure. What I'm saying is that you'd have more credibility if you specifically acknowledged your own disingenuousness when you're called out on it. "We all do it" is not an argument.

A recent example that you ignored when it was pointed out.

Yeah. You dishonestly left out the part where your A.I. said that the Church has removed racist language.

If we can all agree that each one of us in susceptible to "silo-gizing" I think we can bring this discussion to a close. Wang used third person sourcing without actually checking it out because it supported what he believes...living in the silo that he has chosen to inhabit.

And it came through, loud and clear.

Regards,
MG

[sock puppet]

Sure. What I'm saying is that you'd have more credibility if you specifically acknowledged your own disingenuousness when you're called out on it. "We all do it" is not an argument.

A recent example that you ignored when it was pointed out.

If we can all agree that each one of us in susceptible to "silo-gizing" I think we can bring this discussion to a close. Wang used third person sourcing without actually checking it out because it supported what he believes...living in the silo that he has chosen to inhabit.

And it came through, loud and clear.

Regards,
MG

If only... Now MG 2.0, just bow your head and say "yes"--and do what they tell ya.

[MG 2.0]

If we can all agree that each one of us in susceptible to "silo-gizing" I think we can bring this discussion to a close. Wang used third person sourcing without actually checking it out because it supported what he believes...living in the silo that he has chosen to inhabit.

And it came through, loud and clear.

Regards,
MG

If only... Now MG 2.0, just bow your head and say "yes"--and do what they tell ya.

That's not in my nature. I don't "just" do anything. I have to have a good reason.

Regards,
MG

[Marcus]

And again, back to the thread...

The account of one of Brigham Young's non favorite wives and their children having to schedule meetings in order to beg for money while living in near destitution, while Young and his favorite wives and their children lived in luxury is both heart-wrenching and sickening.

Several members of my extended family are really into genealogy and family history, so I regularly get sent the transcription of family journals, or compiled family histories, and most often lately, individual biographies. I really appreciate the work put into this!

However, some of them are utterly heartbreaking to read. There are stories of second wives who were banished when their husband died and they were left to scrape out an existence for themselves and their (invariably, many, many) children. Or the abandoned first wives whose husbands were sent off to a new location with their (much younger) second wife. That one resulted in my grandfather never seeing his mother again after age 17.

The worst was the history of a woman, still under 30, who was pregnant with her sixth child when her husband went to salt lake for a week-long vacation, to "court" the 16 year old who would be his second wife. This vacation was arranged and paid for by his family. She had to witness his wedding when they came back, and then died several weeks later, in child birth. Her husband's child bride gave birth eight months later.

Even my hard core Mormon relative, who wrote up her history, conceded she died of a broken heart. It was devastating to read.

But yes, That's the legacy Young and Smith have left us.

[MG 2.0]

And again, back to the thread...

Several members of my extended family are really into genealogy and family history, so I regularly get sent the transcription of family journals, or compiled family histories, and most often lately, individual biographies. I really appreciate the work put into this!

However, some of them are utterly heartbreaking to read. There are stories of second wives who were banished when their husband died and they were left to scrape out an existence for themselves and their (invariably, many, many) children. Or the abandoned first wives whose husbands were sent off to a new location with their (much younger) second wife. That one resulted in my grandfather never seeing his mother again after age 17.

The worst was the history of a woman, still under 30, who was pregnant with her sixth child when her husband went to salt lake for a week-long vacation, to "court" the 16 year old who would be his second wife. This vacation was arranged and paid for by his family. She had to witness his wedding when they came back, and then died several weeks later, in child birth. Her husband's child bride gave birth eight months later.

Even my hard core Mormon relative, who wrote up her history, conceded she died of a broken heart. It was devastating to read.

But yes, That's the legacy Young and Smith have left us.

The topic was/is abortion and the church's current position relative thereto. We then were discussing Heber C. Kimball and his position on abortion. Wang made a comment in which he gave insufficient context to what Kimball had said. I called him on it.

The posts having to do with plural marriage are the ones that are off topic.

Maybe stick to the topic?

Regards,
MG

[drumdude]

Do you approve of Everybody Wang Chung's complete misrepresentation of what Heber C. Kimball said? I guess I'm not surprised that your colleagues on the Obsession Board seem to be absolutely fine with it. They've seldom if ever raised so much as a peep of protest at any of his brazen PRIOR prevarications, so this is really just par for the course.

I think we would all be wise to take a page out of the DCP playbook and ignore anything we don’t feel like defending.

It’s super effective, as Daniel well knows.