The Church sued its own insurers, to cover the cost of sex abuse claims, and lost.

[MG 2.0]

This is a problem. One that needs to be fixed. I disagree that it's all about "love of filthy lucre."

https://floodlit.org/

Local leaders to often are dismissing the reports they receive as hearsay, minimizing the seriousness (attributing it to issues like pornography rather than abuse), and then failing to act on allegations.

Again, it needs attention and needs to be fixed. Too many people are being hurt.

Regards,
MG

Aren't the local leaders called through inspiration from God? And then receive inspiration in how to discharge their calling?

Sustaining leaders with a sense of integrity as a church member involves a dynamic interplay of faith in divine processes, proactive accountability, and moral courage to confront human failing—all while navigating the tension between ideal theology and imperfect practice.

I don't think that in a fallen world with imperfect beings that everything, including callings of leaders, is always going to result in casualty free outcomes. Whether or not every leadership calling is a direct result of one to one revelation is actually a good question. I'm not convinced that this is always the case. What percentage of the time that it is...who knows? In my opinion God is working with and through fallible beings.

That is rather obvious.

As with all of His children writ large He has a backup plan for when things go awry.

And that's when I leave things in the larger plan. God works things out even though it can't always be done in real time. Agency and all that.

In the meantime, like I said, things need to be fixed. There will be some 'bad eggs' that slip through the cracks.

Regards,
MG

[sock puppet]

Aren't the local leaders called through inspiration from God? And then receive inspiration in how to discharge their calling?

Sustaining leaders with a sense of integrity as a church member involves a dynamic interplay of faith in divine processes, proactive accountability, and moral courage to confront human failing—all while navigating the tension between ideal theology and imperfect practice.

I don't think that in a fallen world with imperfect beings that everything, including callings of leaders, is always going to result in casualty free outcomes. Whether or not every leadership calling is a direct result of one to one revelation is actually a good question. I'm not convinced that this is always the case. What percentage of the time that it is...who knows? In my opinion God is working with and through fallible beings.

That is rather obvious.

As with all of His children writ large He has a backup plan for when things go awry.

And that's when I leave things in the larger plan. God works things out even though it can't always be done in real time. Agency and all that.

In the meantime, like I said, things need to be fixed. There will be some 'bad eggs' that slip through the cracks.

Regards,
MG

Your post begs the question, why does God interpose "leaders" (as you call them) rather than just directly communicate with each of his children? Your God finds it appealing that rank and file members follow the fallible rather than just follow Him directly?

[MG 2.0]

Sustaining leaders with a sense of integrity as a church member involves a dynamic interplay of faith in divine processes, proactive accountability, and moral courage to confront human failing—all while navigating the tension between ideal theology and imperfect practice.

I don't think that in a fallen world with imperfect beings that everything, including callings of leaders, is always going to result in casualty free outcomes. Whether or not every leadership calling is a direct result of one to one revelation is actually a good question. I'm not convinced that this is always the case. What percentage of the time that it is...who knows? In my opinion God is working with and through fallible beings.

That is rather obvious.

As with all of His children writ large He has a backup plan for when things go awry.

And that's when I leave things in the larger plan. God works things out even though it can't always be done in real time. Agency and all that.

In the meantime, like I said, things need to be fixed. There will be some 'bad eggs' that slip through the cracks.

Regards,
MG

Your post begs the question, why does God interpose "leaders" (as you call them) rather than just directly communicate with each of his children?

Two things can be necessary/true at the same time.

Your God finds it appealing that rank and file members follow the infallible rather than just follow Him directly?

I think that throughout history when God has called prophets he has had an expectation that his followers would follow Him by following the prophet at the time.

Regards,
MG

[malkie]

...
Your post begs the question, why does God interpose "leaders" (as you call them) rather than just directly communicate with each of his children? Your God finds it appealing that rank and file members follow the infallible rather than just follow Him directly?

"fallible", right?

in my opinion,this fits in with the Oaks' statement that members should not criticise leaders, even when the leaders are wrong. This is an exercise in obedience, and in what some refer to as outsourcing your conscience. When the general authority does it, or requires it, that means that it is not sinful, by definition. Tricky Dallin!

It's related to the idea that those who can make you believe the impossible can also make you commit attrocities.

Formerly there were those who said: You believe things that are incomprehensible, inconsistent, impossible because we have commanded you to believe them; go then and do what is injust because we command it. Such people show admirable reasoning. Truly, whoever can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. If the God-given understanding of your mind does not resist a demand to believe what is impossible, then you will not resist a demand to do wrong to that God-given sense of justice in your heart. As soon as one faculty of your soul has been dominated, other faculties will follow as well. And from this derives all those crimes of religion which have overrun the world.

https://www.cato.org/publications/comme ... m-voltaire

Obey the prophet, even if he is wrong, and god will reward you for it.

[sock puppet]

Your post begs the question, why does God interpose "leaders" (as you call them) rather than just directly communicate with each of his children? Your God finds it appealing that rank and file members follow the infallible rather than just follow Him directly?

"fallible", right?

yes. thanks. corrected.

in my opinion, this fits in with the Oaks' statement that members should not criticise leaders, even when the leaders are wrong. This is an exercise in obedience, and in what some refer to as outsourcing your conscience. When the general authority does it, or requires it, that means that it is not sinful, by definition. Tricky Dallin!

It's related to the idea that those who can make you believe the impossible can also make you commit atrocities.

Formerly there were those who said: You believe things that are incomprehensible, inconsistent, impossible because we have commanded you to believe them; go then and do what is injust because we command it. Such people show admirable reasoning. Truly, whoever can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. If the God-given understanding of your mind does not resist a demand to believe what is impossible, then you will not resist a demand to do wrong to that God-given sense of justice in your heart. As soon as one faculty of your soul has been dominated, other faculties will follow as well. And from this derives all those crimes of religion which have overrun the world.

https://www.cato.org/publications/comme ... m-voltaire

Obey the prophet, even if he is wrong, and god will reward you for it.

MG 2.0 will most assuredly, bow his head, say yes and do what they tell him.

[MG 2.0]

"fallible", right?

in my opinion,this fits in with the Oaks' statement that members should not criticise leaders, even when the leaders are wrong. This is an exercise in obedience, and in what some refer to as outsourcing your conscience. When the general authority does it, or requires it, that means that it is not sinful, by definition. Tricky Dallin!

It's related to the idea that those who can make you believe the impossible can also make you commit attrocities.

https://www.cato.org/publications/comme ... m-voltaire

Obey the prophet, even if he is wrong, and god will reward you for it.

MG 2.0 will most assuredly, bow his head, say yes and do what they tell him.

Why do you do that, sock puppet? This is not the first time. Ridicule does not add to the discussion.

Regards,
MG