Continued discussion about gender inequality in LDS church

[Rivendale]

This isn't a one off or an entertainment tactic. He is demoralizing groups with a superiority complex.

“You wanna walk away from the church? Walk away from anything that let’s anything in your life count or matter beyond this life.”

“Maybe instead of asking ‘why did the blacks have to wait until 1978, maybe what we should be asking is ‘why did the whites and other races have to wait until 1829?”

“Christianity has a problem, a huge problem. Jesus said ‘Get baptized or you’re not going to Heaven’. And yet most people in the world have never heard the name of Jesus Christ, let alone been baptized. That’s a problem. Do you realize we’re part of the only church that has the solution?”

“You wanna walk away from the church? Walk away from anything that let’s anything in your life count or matter beyond this life.”

“If you walk away from this religion you lose everything. - Everything that truly matters most. stay put. Stay strong. Look for every possible reason there is to stay and there is to share.” People play church. All other churches are playing church. They don't have the authority. Mormons do real church

Mormons are the only christians that are led by Jesus.

I do not want to live if I do not have access to the leaders.

He stated that atheists in such studies claimed that you can be good ethical people without religion. Following that he claimed that they are wrong, going on about a story involving a bus accident saying that they are the first to selfishly run for their lives while the others stay to help.

[MG 2.0]

This isn't a one off or an entertainment tactic. He is demoralizing groups with a superiority complex.

“You wanna walk away from the church? Walk away from anything that let’s anything in your life count or matter beyond this life.”

“Maybe instead of asking ‘why did the blacks have to wait until 1978, maybe what we should be asking is ‘why did the whites and other races have to wait until 1829?”

“Christianity has a problem, a huge problem. Jesus said ‘Get baptized or you’re not going to Heaven’. And yet most people in the world have never heard the name of Jesus Christ, let alone been baptized. That’s a problem. Do you realize we’re part of the only church that has the solution?”

“You wanna walk away from the church? Walk away from anything that let’s anything in your life count or matter beyond this life.”

“If you walk away from this religion you lose everything. - Everything that truly matters most. stay put. Stay strong. Look for every possible reason there is to stay and there is to share.” People play church. All other churches are playing church. They don't have the authority. Mormons do real church

Mormons are the only christians that are led by Jesus.

I do not want to live if I do not have access to the leaders.

He stated that atheists in such studies claimed that you can be good ethical people without religion. Following that he claimed that they are wrong, going on about a story involving a bus accident saying that they are the first to selfishly run for their lives while the others stay to help.

Yep. I think he is at times full of himself. I think that he has been called on it, however, and things should tone down with this guy. I sure hope so anyway. Apparently in the last year or two for one reason or another he has been settling down.

If so, I hope it continues. Some guys can be jerks at times. Know what I mean? In and out of the church.

Regards,
MG

[Marcus]

This isn't a one off or an entertainment tactic. He is demoralizing groups with a superiority complex.

“You wanna walk away from the church? Walk away from anything that let’s anything in your life count or matter beyond this life.”

“Maybe instead of asking ‘why did the blacks have to wait until 1978, maybe what we should be asking is ‘why did the whites and other races have to wait until 1829?”

“Christianity has a problem, a huge problem. Jesus said ‘Get baptized or you’re not going to Heaven’. And yet most people in the world have never heard the name of Jesus Christ, let alone been baptized. That’s a problem. Do you realize we’re part of the only church that has the solution?”

“You wanna walk away from the church? Walk away from anything that let’s anything in your life count or matter beyond this life.”

“If you walk away from this religion you lose everything. - Everything that truly matters most. stay put. Stay strong. Look for every possible reason there is to stay and there is to share.” People play church. All other churches are playing church. They don't have the authority. Mormons do real church

Mormons are the only christians that are led by Jesus.

I do not want to live if I do not have access to the leaders.

He stated that atheists in such studies claimed that you can be good ethical people without religion. Following that he claimed that they are wrong, going on about a story involving a bus accident saying that they are the first to selfishly run for their lives while the others stay to help.

Wow. That is horrifying. I can't imagine being a parent who is okay with someone telling your children this.

[Rivendale]

This isn't a one off or an entertainment tactic. He is demoralizing groups with a superiority complex.

Doe. That is horrifying. I can't imagine being a parent who is okay with someone telling your children this.

It gets worse.

[MsJack]

It sounds like they've finally realized that all possible explanations are irrational, contradictory, incoherent, or just plain misogynist, and are now defaulting to, "We just don't know."

In any case, a few policies have been improved in women's favor in the past decade, and more could be improved even without giving women the priesthood, so I hope this is a sign of further positive changes on the way.

[MG 2.0]

It sounds like they've finally realized that all possible explanations are irrational, contradictory, incoherent, or just plain misogynist, and are now defaulting to, "We just don't know."

In any case, a few policies have been improved in women's favor in the past decade, and more could be improved even without giving women the priesthood, so I hope this is a sign of further positive changes on the way.

Same here.

Regards,
MG

[Dr. Sunstoned]

Elder Renlund stated that the reasons for the asymmetry between men and women regarding priesthood office ordination have not been revealed. A noteworthy parallel is that the reasons behind the priesthood restriction were not revealed for over 120 years. Then, lo and behold, it was revealed that it wasn't a restriction after all. It was just a policy. I would like to ask Brother Renlund if the gender restriction might ultimately prove to be similar.

[MG 2.0]

Elder Renlund stated that the reasons for the asymmetry between men and women regarding priesthood office ordination have not been revealed. A noteworthy parallel is that the reasons behind the priesthood restriction were not revealed for over 120 years. Then, lo and behold, it was revealed that it wasn't a restriction after all. It was just a policy. I would like to ask Brother Renlund if the gender restriction might ultimately prove to be similar.

Apparently revelation isn't always easy to come by. Again, I can think of a number of examples as I'm sure you could.

The question then becomes why? I think there may be various factors. Off the top of my head I'm thinking of polygamy and the manifesto. It took a couple of revelations (was it actually more that weren't made public?) before those following this commandment backed away. And even then, some never did and thus we have the fundies. As a result there are now generations of people living in an apostate condition...from the perspective of the SL church... through no real fault of their own. That changes the whole trajectory of a lot of people without even mentioning/focusing on the misery and pain that resulted from all that. So revelation can be messy. If it, the revelation, hadn't been given (even though it was taught as a requirement for the highest level in the CK) there would have been a danger of dissolution of the church. If the LDS church is the true church of God, that wouldn't have worked out so well. Again, revelation, depending on the circumstances, is a messy project that God has to work with in a fallen world that moves forward and backward in ebbs and flows because of individual agency.

And this is not even mentioning the ruckus that the revelation at the time of Joseph Smith, regarding plurality of wives, caused in Joseph and Emma's own lives. All Emma seemed to get out of it was some deeded property. Yay.

I think that current General Authorities have seen and understood situations...which are many...in which revelation received and revelation not given can result in both pros and cons.

And doctrines and policies get caught in the middle.

This particular topic is deserving of its own treatise/book, not a short little post on a backwoods message board. It's big.

Not a few people have lost their testimonies and left the church because of issues directly related to what we refer to as 'revelation from God'. And as I said and I'll say it again, it's a messy topic with lots of...you guessed it...many moving parts.

Regards,
MG

[Marcus]

Doe. That is horrifying. I can't imagine being a parent who is okay with someone telling your children this.

It gets worse.

there are so, so many problems with that poster.

[MG 2.0]

It gets worse.

there are so, so many problems with that poster.

The poster shows the book cover of a book by Brad Wilcox. The book had and continues to have popularity among LDS youth.

Inquiry: What were some of the positive responses to Brad Wilcox's book called, "Sex Is Like an Apple-Don't Spoil a Good Thing"?


It appears that "Sex Is Like an Apple—Don't Spoil a Good Thing" by Brad Wilcox, published in the mid-1990s, was generally received positively within its intended audience, primarily young members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Here are some aspects that likely contributed to positive responses:

Clear Analogy: The central analogy of sex being like an apple was likely seen as a relatable and memorable way to communicate the concept of preserving intimacy for marriage. The idea of something good being "spoiled" before its proper time is a simple and easily understandable message for youth.

Focus on Love: The book reportedly shifted the focus away from fear-based reasons for avoiding premarital sex (like disease or punishment) and instead emphasized love as the primary motivator for remaining morally clean. This positive framing could have resonated well with young people seeking meaningful reasons for their choices.

Reverent Tone: Despite being forthright about the topic of sex, the book was also described as treating the subject with reverence. This approach would likely be appreciated within a religious context where the topic is often considered sacred and sensitive.

Alignment with Church Teachings: The book supported its message with scriptures and quotations from Church leaders. This would have reinforced its validity and trustworthiness within the LDS community.

Brad Wilcox's Popularity: Brad Wilcox was and continues to be a popular speaker, particularly among LDS youth. His engaging style and ability to connect with young audiences likely contributed to the book's positive reception.

While specific reviews from the time period are harder to come by online, the continued availability of the book and its relatively high rating on platforms like Goodreads suggest that it was a helpful and well-received resource for many seeking guidance on this topic within an LDS framework. The book aimed to provide a positive and love-centered perspective on sexual morality, which likely resonated with its intended readership.

Gemini 2.0 A.I

Different strokes for different folks.

As I've said earlier, sometimes one's popularity can go to one's head. I think that Elder Wilcox might find that a struggle he has to deal with in the middle of doing MUCH good. Life's kinda like that. The good, the bad, and the ugly.

I'm sure the book has its supporters just like it has its detractors.

Regards,
MG