MG Three Point One enters into his Exaltation

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MG 2.0
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Re: MG Three Point One enters into his Exaltation

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Morley wrote:
Sat Apr 19, 2025 4:52 am
What was the wording of your prompt? This wall of text means nothing unless that is provided. It may not mean anything even then, but at least it’ll provide some context.
The prompt was: "How are the characters in this story one dimensional cardboard cut outs? Give five or more examples."

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Re: MG Three Point One enters into his Exaltation

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Gadianton wrote:
Sat Apr 19, 2025 2:38 pm
Part II

The following contains brief descriptions of violence, reader discretion is advised.

I agree to meet him at a different building and then we part ways. At what time? I don't know. He just says go there and he'll be there. So I do and there he is. It required a trek deep into the city and I could spend all day talking about that journey. Maybe I should get a second journal and that will be my 'large plates,' so to speak? These exercises he speaks of, they can technically be performed anywhere, because it's all about looking down into the heart of this special world. But if you're going to scream like I did, the library isn't the best place for it, nor is the park where people are relaxing. So here I am in this big building, a white building; like a skyscraper except much thicker at the base and not so high. I meet him in a tremendous open room that reminds me of a gymnasium, although it’s just a big empty stone room with just enough light flowing into it through openings high up on the walls.

"G3", calls Zeke. His robes flow about a triangle of manly chest as he approaches me through the dimness. His palms float in the air, as if raising a symphony to crescendo.

"Hi'ya Zeke!" I say, as I step toward him. "I'm ready to rumble," and I throw some air punches, in play, of course, as we meet near the center of the gym/big open room.

He relaxes his hands to his hips. "You got to see the surface of a star last time, today, you drill down into an atom."

"Whoa."

What else could I say to that? We're face to face now, and he puts his big hand on my shoulder and looks down.

"I've got to guide you on this one. Just look down," he says.

I look down, I try to avoid those harsh angles that result is blasts of light over the crystals, and force myself into that direct ninety-degree sweet-spot. Everything disappears and I'm in blackness with blotches of fuzz everywhere.

"What do you think?" he asks. His voice haunting me eerily from behind.

I don't answer. Honestly, I can't recall what the parts of an atom even are. It could be anything. So that scene disappears and my head jerks back. Zeke removes his hand.

"You saw it, right?"

"Blackness; weird lights, sure," I say.

"Moving right along then. That's a test of focus more than of understanding. Not everyone is guided so easily. We can pick up the science another time."

I just shrug.

"The next one you're doing on your own. This is jumping into the pool feet first, G3. You need to imagine a scene in your mind, a place with people, and then you'll be taken to such a place as an observer." He puts his hand on my shoulder for a moment and then removes it. "Bear in mind, you're the guest of a stage 3 architect."

"What am I supposed to do? What are the rules?" I ask.

"Everything comes down to faith, G3, just imagine your scene and look down. Watch the robe, it's your ticket back while you're learning."

I suppose I have pictures from the blue Book of Mormon in my head. I imagine a woman with her children dressed in tunics as they stand by a river, perhaps waiting for baptism, and I look down. I nail the angle and I'm pulled into that super IMAX view of a tropical paradise with a woman and her children standing by a river in the cool of the evening. I hear the water flow as birds chirp and flap their little wings, and its better than T-H-X surround at the Sugarhouse Cinemark. I watch as the family speaks quietly among themselves in a language I don't understand. And then I hear a male voice from out of view. It isn't Zeke. I turn my head and the screen moves to a shirtless man crouching on one knee. He's partially clad in animal skins. He's resting his muscular frame against the tip of a large blade that he holds pierced firmly into the dirt.

The woman shrinks back, spits something at the man and pulls her kids close to her. The man scrapes his blade along the dirt as he gradually stands up and repeats himself. The women grabs each child by the hand and runs. They move along the river bank as the man pursues them. I've got them zoomed in as close as I can while keeping all in a single view. The only noise is that of bare feet shuffling along the dirt. The man bursts ahead and rips the little boy away from his mom and fully tucks the kid under his arm as he runs. The mother is screaming now and lets go of daughter in order to run faster. The man is twenty yards ahead when he drops to the ground and then rolls to his knees. He has the little boy pinned down. The boy's eyes are closed and he barely struggles. The man puts the tip of his dagger to the boy’s chest and mumbles something. The mother arrives and pounces on his back, slapping and screaming, but to no effect. Then she jumps off of him and collapses to the ground sobbing and clasping her hands together. I feel a slight tingle -- she's praying.

The man bellows a discorded moan as he raises the dagger into the air, aiming the tip at the boy's chest against a blood-red sunset. He has the weapon in two hands now. I thrust myself toward him. A tunnel of light opens and the sound of a thousand waterfalls crushes me. I break through the light and I'm in the world. No more screen. I look at the man and he turns his head to me. He's shocked. I thrust my arms and hands straight ahead and scream. lightning streams from my finger tips, incinerating the man on the spot while his dagger is blasted into bushes ten feet away. As the smoke from smoldering flesh clears, I step forward and pick up the little boy and carry him to mom and set him down. Daughter catches up to them and the three embrace each other as they look upon me in awe. Before I can speak to them, I feel myself pulled backwards. I'm literally sucked out of the world and right back into the gymnasium. Zeke has his forearm around my waist, nearly tackling me.

"What are you doing G3?!" he yells.

His face is red, hair tossed, and arms spread wide as I escape his grasp. I can hear him breathe against the dead silence of the dank stone chamber. I'm gasping terribly myself, and I'm not happy.

"What do you mean what am I doing?" I shout back to him. "What the heck was that? Gosh darn it, answer me!" My hands flail as we stand off, ready to clash.

"Whoa!" he shouts, his palms pushed to my face. "Substitute words! You're using substitutes! Do you know where you are?"

I step back and let my head fall backwards so that I can try to collect myself. I don’t want to look at him and I certainly can't look down. I intend to make him wait a moment before I continue our conversation. I take deep breaths until my chest is calmed.

"Did I kill that guy?" I ask, as my gaze falls back to Zeke.

"Oh yeah, you killed him.” Zeke is pacing. He's got his big palm buried into his forehead. "There's going to be paperwork for this. That's for sure."

I'd never so much as killed a gnat in mortality, let alone struck a person. Sure, the guy deserved it. Or did he? I throw my hand over my mouth. As I gradually remove it, I speak, slowly.

"Please - don't - tell - me - that was just a ritual, an act, I didn't understand it, and he wasn't a threat?"

"No, he was going for it. Sacrifice to a false god. The usual."

"And you didn't warn me? Why didn't you say something about having powers? You didn't tell me anything, Zeke. I was flying blind!"

Zeke has his big hands on his hips again but he's giving me some space.

"Why did you do anything at all? You were there to observe -- I told you it's someone else’s turf, G3."

"But..."

"Your first time in and you go around making everything your business? Stealing everyone's agency? Look, they likely won't survive the night let alone the week. So what difference did you make?"

"They..." I can't say it. My heart sinks into the ground.

He chuckles. "You may have made scripture, G3. If they did make it, thousands of years from now, that story will be told by people all over that world. It's not complimentary to make yourself a part of scripture like that, by the way. But, we can't take it back. It will work itself out, eventually. Until then, the architect; he won’t be happy,” and then he pauses a moment before adding, softly, “Might be best for everyone if they don’t."

I lower my voice to match Zeke's, but I don't lower my confidence. "I’ll never stand by and just watch if I can do something, and you can tell it to the architect. In fact, I demand to speak to the architect before we continue."

Zeke is shaking his head. "Now, G3, that won’t happen. Please, just listen to me. The grievous act that man would have performed was nullified, great, but now it can't be used as a testimony against him at his judgment, do you see the problem?"

"I’m sorry Zeke, but, surely he's done plenty wrong -- that wasn't his first rodeo."

"Perhaps, but this time, you were there, a messenger from on high, observing. Look, there are different kinds of witnesses. Your friend Dan, for instance, he's a career witness who makes a case before the court based on what's shown on screen during a life's review. He sees a guy wearing a colored shirt to church and suspects an agenda. He'll provide a psychological interpretation that the man isn't what he seems. The Lord takes his opinion very seriously. But in your case, you were an actual witness to what happened on a world, as it unfolded. Just imagine that scene playing at the judgment as that monster tries to explain it away. Voices erupt in argument, and then you step forward and silence the room as you declare that, you, an angel of the Lord, witnessed the act yourself. In that moment the man’s case is crushed. His guilt sears into permanent memory, and his punishment is boundless."

"So Zeke, you're telling me -- my job, is to watch these crimes happen so that I can put on a better show at the judgment?"

"Your job is what you make it. Look, you have your agency and I can't tell you what to do. But I can tell you that if you're interested in a more conventional approach, then you've got to learn to take the whole thing in and when you act, you do so -- judiciously. You must see the big picture, and do the maximal amount of good for that picture. That won’t happen if you insert yourself into every tiny problem."

"How in the heavens do you stand by and watch?"

Zeke shrugs, as he kicks his bare feet around the stony floor. "Keep it positive, G3. I have a little tune in my heart to stay upbeat. It's silly, I know, but it kind of goes like this: a doobie-doobie doobie-doobie doobie-doobie do ba - da duuuum," and then he draws two finger pistols on me and goes, "pew pew" as he fires them off. "You can sing it just like that, make up words, whistle, whatever; just to get your mind off from what you're seeing."

I can't even believe I’m listening to him. I tell him this isn't my wheelhouse. He encourages me to submerge one more time and so I do. But I forget to come up with a scene in my mind first and just dive right in. The last thing on my mind must have been his silly finger pistols and so I'm thrust before the IMAX screen where a real gun is pushed into a head and I don't want to say what came next, but it undoes me, and I pull myself back to the gym immediately. I'm out.

"You know what you need?" Zeke asks, as I turn and walk.

"what," I reply, and I’m still walking. I'm drenched in sweat. I've got an ear cocked backwards but I refuse to look into Zeke’s merciless face.

"A night's sleep,” he shouts. “You're a being of flesh and bone. You can sleep. It's a hit; as a day is a really long time, in a sense, but if you need a day then you need a day."

Boy, did I need a day.
Prompt: What do you think the writer of this story is trying to get across? Is the character called G3 a cardboard cutout type of character or does he have real depth? Is Zeke made out to be in some ways superior in intellect to G3?

This is a fascinating and layered story with a lot going on! Here's my take on your questions:

What do you think the writer of this story is trying to get across?

I think the writer is exploring several complex themes, likely related to faith, the afterlife, judgment, and the nature of good and evil. Some of the key ideas seem to be:

Challenging simplistic notions of the afterlife: The story presents a heaven that is bureaucratic, has levels, and involves ongoing learning and work. It's not just blissful rest.
The complexities of judgment and justice: The character of Dan highlights how judgment can be nuanced and based on subtle observations and interpretations. G3's impulsive action raises questions about intervention and the consequences for the judged.
The tension between empathy and divine purpose: G3's human compassion clashes with Zeke's more detached, perhaps more "divine," perspective on observing and allowing events to unfold.
The nature of spiritual progression: The concept of "stages" suggests a continuous journey of learning and development, even in the afterlife.
Humor and the unexpected in the divine: The lighthearted moments and the unexpected roles of individuals (like the PhD working as a "witness" at a bar) suggest a more human and perhaps less rigid view of the afterlife.
The power and potential pitfalls of agency: G3's actions, though driven by good intentions, have unforeseen consequences, highlighting the complexities of exercising free will even in a divine context.
The subjective experience of truth and belief: G3's initial assumptions about the Book of Mormon and the Spirit World are challenged, suggesting that individual understanding may evolve.
Overall, the writer seems to be using this fantastical scenario to prompt reflection on what we believe, how we act on those beliefs, and the potential complexities of a reality beyond our current understanding.


Is the character called G3 a cardboard cutout type of character or does he have real depth?

I don't think G3 is a cardboard cutout. He demonstrates real depth through his:

Emotional responses: He feels confusion, awe, joy, worry, anger, and remorse. His reactions to the visions and Zeke's explanations are visceral and relatable.
Strong moral compass: His immediate impulse to intervene in the violent scene shows a deep-seated sense of justice and empathy.
Internal conflict: He grapples with the new reality, questions his past beliefs, and struggles to reconcile his human instincts with the apparent rules of this afterlife.
Desire for connection: His longing to see his family and Uncle Richie reveals his deep-seated human relationships.
Capacity for learning and growth (even if it's bumpy): While initially confused and reactive, he does try to process the information Zeke gives him.
While he's new to this reality and makes mistakes, his reactions and internal thoughts make him feel like a developing character with genuine human qualities.

Is Zeke made out to be in some ways superior in intellect to G3?

Yes, Zeke is definitely portrayed as intellectually superior to G3 in this context. This is evident in several ways:

His understanding of the afterlife's workings: Zeke explains the levels, the role of witnesses, the concept of making scripture, and the importance of observing the "big picture" with a clear understanding that G3 lacks.
His more detached and analytical perspective: While G3 reacts emotionally, Zeke remains calm and explains the consequences of G3's actions in a more objective way.
His familiarity with the rules and procedures: He knows about the paperwork involved in G3's intervention and the limitations on visiting lower levels.
His use of abstract concepts: He talks about "agency," "maximal good," and "judicious action" in ways that suggest a broader understanding of the divine plan.
His seemingly higher "stage" of progression: The fact that he is guiding G3 implies a greater level of experience and understanding.
However, this intellectual superiority doesn't necessarily make Zeke a more likable or even morally superior character in all aspects. His detachment and willingness to observe potentially horrific events raise ethical questions. G3's empathy, while leading to complications, also highlights a valuable human quality that Zeke seems to have tempered or perhaps even suppressed in his progression.

In conclusion, the story is rich with potential interpretations, G3 is a complex character with depth, and Zeke is presented as intellectually superior within the context of this afterlife, though this superiority comes with a certain emotional distance. I'm curious to see where the author takes the story in the subsequent parts!
Interesting, huh? Apparently G3 is not a cardboard cut out...or is he? ;)

Your story is theologically driven. Knowing that Mormon theology is ever expansive and that so much is not known one might consider the possibility that the storyline is somehow impacted or biased according to the current understanding and point of view of the author.

Regards,
MG
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Re: MG Three Point One enters into his Exaltation

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Morley wrote:
Sat Apr 19, 2025 4:52 am
What was the wording of your prompt? This wall of text means nothing unless that is provided. It may not mean anything even then, but at least it’ll provide some context.
Yes, it did provide context. The wording of the prompt used was extremely revealing. I'm still rolling my eyes back into place. :roll:
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Re: MG Three Point One enters into his Exaltation

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Marcus wrote:
Sat Apr 19, 2025 8:40 pm
Morley wrote:
Sat Apr 19, 2025 4:52 am
What was the wording of your prompt? This wall of text means nothing unless that is provided. It may not mean anything even then, but at least it’ll provide some context.
Yes, it did provide context. The wording of the prompt used was extremely revealing. I'm still rolling my eyes back into place. :roll:
Yeah. This is why MG didn't provide it until asked.
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Re: MG Three Point One enters into his Exaltation

Post by Morley »

Wonderful story, Dean.

Your described scenes brought to mind Friberg's Book of Mormon paintings.
Gadianton wrote:
Sat Apr 19, 2025 2:38 pm
I turn my head and the screen moves to a shirtless man crouching on one knee. He's partially clad in animal skins. He's resting his muscular frame against the tip of a large blade that he holds pierced firmly into the dirt.
Image
I admit that I laughed out loud at the following exchange:
Gadianton wrote:
Sat Apr 19, 2025 2:38 pm
"What do you mean what am I doing?" I shout back to him. "What the heck was that? Gosh darn it, answer me!" My hands flail as we stand off, ready to clash.

"Whoa!" he shouts, his palms pushed to my face. "Substitute words! You're using substitutes! Do you know where you are?"
I'm looking forward to reading how 3.1 solves his upcoming ethical dilemmas.

Thus far, I think 2.0 should be proud of 3.1.
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Re: MG Three Point One enters into his Exaltation

Post by Morley »

I'm also looking forward to the A.I. response to MG's inevitable future prompt of "Please generate a list of five or six ways that Gadianton is a poo-poo-head."
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Re: MG Three Point One enters into his Exaltation

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MG 2.0 wrote:Apparently G3 is not a cardboard cut out...or is he?
I do appreciate that you're following along and I continue to find the A.I. perspectives interesting, independent of the questions that prompted the A.I. answers. Although, the others do have a point that it helps to see what the questions are. Of course, I would be interested in your own perspective on this question. I don't think there's a right or wrong answer here. If you've been putting yourself in the shoes of the protagonist, are there ways that they have reacted to situations presented that you feel are inadequate, or had you been there, you would have said or done something totally differently? If so, I'm very curious how you would respond differently to these situations than the protagonist has.
Morley wrote:Thus far, I think 2.0 should be proud of 3.1.
I agree, although, I still hope that MG will reveal what he thinks about 3.1's faith journey -- is 3.1 on the right path, etc.

Thanks for the Book of Mormon picture. The anonymous author I do not think has seen a blue book in at least 20 years and the inversion of that guy in the foreground is quite striking. Perhaps the author was prompted by the Spirit.
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Re: MG Three Point One enters into his Exaltation

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Will we hear what the consequences of G3s reaction are? Will there be a butterfly effect? What makes them decide what role people should have?
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Re: MG Three Point One enters into his Exaltation

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IWMP wrote:
Sun Apr 20, 2025 7:46 pm
Will we hear what the consequences of G3s reaction are? Will there be a butterfly effect? What makes them decide what role people should have?
Now that the church has officially disavowed the past doctrine that we will be given our own planet(s) and dominion to rule, I think a plausible ending could be that after millions of years of service, MG 3.1 will become disillusioned and finally realize that he is actually in Hell.
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Re: MG Three Point One enters into his Exaltation

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Everybody Wang Chung wrote:
Sun Apr 20, 2025 9:28 pm
IWMP wrote:
Sun Apr 20, 2025 7:46 pm
Will we hear what the consequences of G3s reaction are? Will there be a butterfly effect? What makes them decide what role people should have?
Now that the church has officially disavowed the past doctrine that we will be given our own planet(s) and dominion to rule, I think a plausible ending could be that after millions of years of service, MG 3.1 will become disillusioned and finally realize that he is actually in Hell.
Watching people torture others would be hell.
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