Continued discussion about gender inequality in LDS church

[MG 2.0]

When we allow We don't know why (WDKW) to stand without challenge, we may fail to notice that WDKW could be concealing the potentially more important WDKI - We don't know if.

Just as it turned out that the black priesthood ban was iffy, it may someday be revealed that the female priesthood ban was also iffy.

Or can anyone prove definitively that Mormon god is deliberately witholding the priesthood from our sisters?

You’re quite right. The First Presidency, and in particular the Prophet, are portrayed as the only reliable source for answers to key questions that concern the entire Church. The Prophet is set apart as God’s only spokesperson. So if there’s a pressing question that needs an answer, the Prophet is a member’s go to source. If he doesn’t know, with all that “special” access to the source of all things, he’s either not asking, or he isn’t what he claims to be.

In terms of the particular question of this thread, a 100 year old white American male who sends his wife out of the marital bedroom in the middle of the night when he’s writing down random thoughts he’s had in his sleep, probably isn’t the best person to look to for an answer.

From what I’ve seen, the answer to these types of question comes first to society, and then God prompts the Prophet via revelation to follow along, belatedly. Take the recent female temple garment changes - they’ve happened as a result of women in particular, wearing their temple garments less and less. And women in hot climates have been asking for change for decades and decades. This isn’t revelation. It’s just old men finally giving in.

Priesthood Authority is their last bastion of male control. In fact, Priesthood Authority IS male control. And that’s all it is. It’s simply a device for ensuring men make the decisions and control the organisation. Given that they spend a great deal of time selecting like-minded individuals, I don’t expect it to change for many many years. In fact, I don’t think there’s a currently serving Apostle that has the backbone to change it proactively. It would take a mass walkout of women, a complete “strike” by women in terms of refusing to serve in callings, temple attendance, etc. before a change “becomes revealed”.

And you're the judge?

Regards,
MG

[I Have Questions]

Trying to bypass the lazy learner who seems focussed on attacking the poster rather than the poster’s content

”We don’t know” is a huge admission that they aren’t in communication with God and Jesus the way they claim to be. To not have an answer means they either haven’t asked (because they don’t want to know?), or they’ve asked and been met with silence.

If they were God’s only spokespeople on earth, you can be sure God would provide an answer on such an important question.

“We don’t know” is synonymous with “We aren’t who we claim to be”. Which they aren’t. Which is why the Church lags behind society by 50 years. The dither about sitting on their hands until they can safely follow societal trends without getting burned or sticking their necks out.

When we allow We don't know why (WDKW) to stand without challenge, we may fail to notice that WDKW could be concealing the potentially more important WDKI - We don't know if.

Just as it turned out that the black priesthood ban was iffy, it may someday be revealed that the female priesthood ban was also iffy.

Or can anyone prove definitively that Mormon god is deliberately witholding the priesthood from our sisters?

You’re quite right. The First Presidency, and in particular the Prophet, are portrayed as the only reliable source for answers to key questions that concern the entire Church. The Prophet is set apart as God’s only spokesperson. So if there’s a pressing question that needs an answer, the Prophet is a member’s go to source. If he doesn’t know, with all that “special” access to the source of all things, he’s either not asking, or he isn’t what he claims to be.

In terms of the particular question of this thread, a 100 year old white American male who sends his wife out of the marital bedroom in the middle of the night when he’s writing down random thoughts he’s had in his sleep, probably isn’t the best person to look to for an answer.

From what I’ve seen, the answer to these types of question comes first to society, and then God prompts the Prophet via revelation to follow along, belatedly. Take the recent female temple garment changes - they’ve happened as a result of women in particular, wearing their temple garments less and less. And women in hot climates have been asking for change for decades and decades. This isn’t revelation. It’s just old men finally giving in.

Priesthood Authority is their last bastion of male control. In fact, Priesthood Authority IS male control. And that’s all it is. It’s simply a device for ensuring men make the decisions and control the organisation. Given that they spend a great deal of time selecting like-minded individuals, I don’t expect it to change for many many years. In fact, I don’t think there’s a currently serving Apostle that has the backbone to change it proactively. It would take a mass walkout of women, a complete “strike” by women in terms of refusing to serve in callings, temple attendance, etc before a change “becomes revealed”.

[MG 2.0]

Trying to bypass the lazy learner who seems focussed on attacking the poster rather than the poster’s content

When we allow We don't know why (WDKW) to stand without challenge, we may fail to notice that WDKW could be concealing the potentially more important WDKI - We don't know if.

Just as it turned out that the black priesthood ban was iffy, it may someday be revealed that the female priesthood ban was also iffy.

Or can anyone prove definitively that Mormon god is deliberately witholding the priesthood from our sisters?

You’re quite right. The First Presidency, and in particular the Prophet, are portrayed as the only reliable source for answers to key questions that concern the entire Church. The Prophet is set apart as God’s only spokesperson. So if there’s a pressing question that needs an answer, the Prophet is a member’s go to source. If he doesn’t know, with all that “special” access to the source of all things, he’s either not asking, or he isn’t what he claims to be.

In terms of the particular question of this thread, a 100 year old white American male who sends his wife out of the marital bedroom in the middle of the night when he’s writing down random thoughts he’s had in his sleep, probably isn’t the best person to look to for an answer.

From what I’ve seen, the answer to these types of question comes first to society, and then God prompts the Prophet via revelation to follow along, belatedly. Take the recent female temple garment changes - they’ve happened as a result of women in particular, wearing their temple garments less and less. And women in hot climates have been asking for change for decades and decades. This isn’t revelation. It’s just old men finally giving in.

Priesthood Authority is their last bastion of male control. In fact, Priesthood Authority IS male control. And that’s all it is. It’s simply a device for ensuring men make the decisions and control the organisation. Given that they spend a great deal of time selecting like-minded individuals, I don’t expect it to change for many many years. In fact, I don’t think there’s a currently serving Apostle that has the backbone to change it proactively. It would take a mass walkout of women, a complete “strike” by women in terms of refusing to serve in callings, temple attendance, etc before a change “becomes revealed”.

I asked you whether or not you are to be the judge on how God interacts with both the world and his prophets. That's not a lazy question. I am serious. the ways and means that God reveals knowledge and takes care of and oversees His work is really none of your business. You can speculate and you can criticize to your heart's content and it won't change anything. You and I are observers. You may observe what goes on within the church and in the outside world through a lens of unbelief, doubt, and criticism. I may see things differently through a lens of a natural world in which humans act and are not acted upon with a God that values free agency above all else and yet oversees and counsels and corrects when needs be.

So we have two very different world views. They are going to clash. In the meantime, I believe in God and worship Him through His Son, Jesus Christ. I try to be a disciple of Jesus Christ. Your criticisms of how an individual member should live their life and choices being made notwithstanding.

As it is, we/I have no idea what your guiding star is. Whether you believe in a higher power other than yourself. Life, of course, can be lived in many different ways. Joseph Smith himself recognized that and stated so. That being said, one might assume that God himself also values human choice and agency to believe what they want to. I find it interesting that you spend so much time sitting on your butt with the intent of degrading a religion that you no longer believe in. A form of missionary work to pull others away from belief in Christ and Heavenly Father.

But that's your choice. You are acting without being acted upon.

That's the gig we all participate in. I simply question why you spend your time pointing out what you believe to be those things that in your opinion place doubt on the origins, meaning, and purpose of the CofJCofLDS.

It is what it is. You have your own part to play.

Regards,
MG

*bump (are we going to play this game?)

I asked YOU a question.

[I Have Questions]

Trying to bypass the lazy learner who seems focussed on attacking the poster rather than the poster’s content

”We don’t know” is a huge admission that they aren’t in communication with God and Jesus the way they claim to be. To not have an answer means they either haven’t asked (because they don’t want to know?), or they’ve asked and been met with silence.

If they were God’s only spokespeople on earth, you can be sure God would provide an answer on such an important question.

“We don’t know” is synonymous with “We aren’t who we claim to be”. Which they aren’t. Which is why the Church lags behind society by 50 years. The dither about sitting on their hands until they can safely follow societal trends without getting burned or sticking their necks out.

When we allow We don't know why (WDKW) to stand without challenge, we may fail to notice that WDKW could be concealing the potentially more important WDKI - We don't know if.

Just as it turned out that the black priesthood ban was iffy, it may someday be revealed that the female priesthood ban was also iffy.

Or can anyone prove definitively that Mormon god is deliberately witholding the priesthood from our sisters?

You’re quite right. The First Presidency, and in particular the Prophet, are portrayed as the only reliable source for answers to key questions that concern the entire Church. The Prophet is set apart as God’s only spokesperson. So if there’s a pressing question that needs an answer, the Prophet is a member’s go to source. If he doesn’t know, with all that “special” access to the source of all things, he’s either not asking, or he isn’t what he claims to be.

In terms of the particular question of this thread, a 100 year old white American male who sends his wife out of the marital bedroom in the middle of the night when he’s writing down random thoughts he’s had in his sleep, probably isn’t the best person to look to for an answer.

From what I’ve seen, the answer to these types of question comes first to society, and then God prompts the Prophet via revelation to follow along, belatedly. Take the recent female temple garment changes - they’ve happened as a result of women in particular, wearing their temple garments less and less. And women in hot climates have been asking for change for decades and decades. This isn’t revelation. It’s just old men finally giving in.

Priesthood Authority is their last bastion of male control. In fact, Priesthood Authority IS male control. And that’s all it is. It’s simply a device for ensuring men make the decisions and control the organisation. Given that they spend a great deal of time selecting like-minded individuals, I don’t expect it to change for many many years. In fact, I don’t think there’s a currently serving Apostle that has the backbone to change it proactively. It would take a mass walkout of women, a complete “strike” by women in terms of refusing to serve in callings, temple attendance, etc before a change “becomes revealed”.

[MG 2.0]

Trying to bypass the lazy learner who seems focussed on attacking the poster rather than the poster’s content

The poster's content is a direct result of the poster's personal observations and place that he has chosen in the world relative to his position in regards to the CofJCofLDS.

One must take that into account.

Yes, I know my responses and MY content are inconvenient to IHQ's objectives...but that's the nature of things.

Regards,
MG

[I Have Questions]

Trying to bypass the lazy learner who seems focussed on attacking the poster rather than the poster’s content

”We don’t know” is a huge admission that they aren’t in communication with God and Jesus the way they claim to be. To not have an answer means they either haven’t asked (because they don’t want to know?), or they’ve asked and been met with silence.

If they were God’s only spokespeople on earth, you can be sure God would provide an answer on such an important question.

“We don’t know” is synonymous with “We aren’t who we claim to be”. Which they aren’t. Which is why the Church lags behind society by 50 years. The dither about sitting on their hands until they can safely follow societal trends without getting burned or sticking their necks out.

When we allow We don't know why (WDKW) to stand without challenge, we may fail to notice that WDKW could be concealing the potentially more important WDKI - We don't know if.

Just as it turned out that the black priesthood ban was iffy, it may someday be revealed that the female priesthood ban was also iffy.

Or can anyone prove definitively that Mormon god is deliberately witholding the priesthood from our sisters?

You’re quite right. The First Presidency, and in particular the Prophet, are portrayed as the only reliable source for answers to key questions that concern the entire Church. The Prophet is set apart as God’s only spokesperson. So if there’s a pressing question that needs an answer, the Prophet is a member’s go to source. If he doesn’t know, with all that “special” access to the source of all things, he’s either not asking, or he isn’t what he claims to be.

In terms of the particular question of this thread, a 100 year old white American male who sends his wife out of the marital bedroom in the middle of the night when he’s writing down random thoughts he’s had in his sleep, probably isn’t the best person to look to for an answer.

From what I’ve seen, the answer to these types of question comes first to society, and then God prompts the Prophet via revelation to follow along, belatedly. Take the recent female temple garment changes - they’ve happened as a result of women in particular, wearing their temple garments less and less. And women in hot climates have been asking for change for decades and decades. This isn’t revelation. It’s just old men finally giving in.

Priesthood Authority is their last bastion of male control. In fact, Priesthood Authority IS male control. And that’s all it is. It’s simply a device for ensuring men make the decisions and control the organisation. Given that they spend a great deal of time selecting like-minded individuals, I don’t expect it to change for many many years. In fact, I don’t think there’s a currently serving Apostle that has the backbone to change it proactively. It would take a mass walkout of women, a complete “strike” by women in terms of refusing to serve in callings, temple attendance, etc before a change “becomes revealed”.

[MG 2.0]

IHQ and Marcus are noticeable doing something I haven't seen done before quite so frequently. By passing another poster's contributions by re-posting either their own post or that of another 'friendly'. That's something new. In a sense, rather troll-like. If not that, another form of 'cancel culture'.

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

Trying to bypass the lazy learner who seems focussed on attacking the poster rather than the poster’s contentYou’re quite right. The First Presidency, and in particular the Prophet, are portrayed as the only reliable source for answers to key questions that concern the entire Church. The Prophet is set apart as God’s only spokesperson. So if there’s a pressing question that needs an answer, the Prophet is a member’s go to source. If he doesn’t know, with all that “special” access to the source of all things, he’s either not asking, or he isn’t what he claims to be.

In terms of the particular question of this thread, a 100 year old white American male who sends his wife out of the marital bedroom in the middle of the night when he’s writing down random thoughts he’s had in his sleep, probably isn’t the best person to look to for an answer.

From what I’ve seen, the answer to these types of question comes first to society, and then God prompts the Prophet via revelation to follow along, belatedly. Take the recent female temple garment changes - they’ve happened as a result of women in particular, wearing their temple garments less and less. And women in hot climates have been asking for change for decades and decades. This isn’t revelation. It’s just old men finally giving in.

Priesthood Authority is their last bastion of male control. In fact, Priesthood Authority IS male control. And that’s all it is. It’s simply a device for ensuring men make the decisions and control the organisation. Given that they spend a great deal of time selecting like-minded individuals, I don’t expect it to change for many many years. In fact, I don’t think there’s a currently serving Apostle that has the backbone to change it proactively. It would take a mass walkout of women, a complete “strike” by women in terms of refusing to serve in callings, temple attendance, etc before a change “becomes revealed”.

I asked you whether or not you are to be the judge on how God interacts with both the world and his prophets. That's not a lazy question. I am serious. the ways and means that God reveals knowledge and takes care of and oversees His work is really none of your business. You can speculate and you can criticize to your heart's content and it won't change anything. You and I are observers. You may observe what goes on within the church and in the outside world through a lens of unbelief, doubt, and criticism. I may see things differently through a lens of a natural world in which humans act and are not acted upon with a God that values free agency above all else and yet oversees and counsels and corrects when needs be.

So we have two very different world views. They are going to clash. In the meantime, I believe in God and worship Him through His Son, Jesus Christ. I try to be a disciple of Jesus Christ. Your criticisms of how an individual member should live their life and choices being made notwithstanding.

As it is, we/I have no idea what your guiding star is. Whether you believe in a higher power other than yourself. Life, of course, can be lived in many different ways. Joseph Smith himself recognized that and stated so. That being said, one might assume that God himself also values human choice and agency to believe what they want to. I find it interesting that you spend so much time sitting on your butt with the intent of degrading a religion that you no longer believe in. A form of missionary work to pull others away from belief in Christ and Heavenly Father.

But that's your choice. You are acting without being acted upon.

That's the gig we all participate in. I simply question why you spend your time pointing out what you believe to be those things that in your opinion place doubt on the origins, meaning, and purpose of the CofJCofLDS.

It is what it is. You have your own part to play.

Regards,
MG

*bump (are we going to play this game?)

I asked YOU a question.

[I Have Questions]

Trying to bypass the lazy learner who seems focussed on attacking the poster rather than the poster’s content

”We don’t know” is a huge admission that they aren’t in communication with God and Jesus the way they claim to be. To not have an answer means they either haven’t asked (because they don’t want to know?), or they’ve asked and been met with silence.

If they were God’s only spokespeople on earth, you can be sure God would provide an answer on such an important question.

“We don’t know” is synonymous with “We aren’t who we claim to be”. Which they aren’t. Which is why the Church lags behind society by 50 years. The dither about sitting on their hands until they can safely follow societal trends without getting burned or sticking their necks out.

When we allow We don't know why (WDKW) to stand without challenge, we may fail to notice that WDKW could be concealing the potentially more important WDKI - We don't know if.

Just as it turned out that the black priesthood ban was iffy, it may someday be revealed that the female priesthood ban was also iffy.

Or can anyone prove definitively that Mormon god is deliberately witholding the priesthood from our sisters?

You’re quite right. The First Presidency, and in particular the Prophet, are portrayed as the only reliable source for answers to key questions that concern the entire Church. The Prophet is set apart as God’s only spokesperson. So if there’s a pressing question that needs an answer, the Prophet is a member’s go to source. If he doesn’t know, with all that “special” access to the source of all things, he’s either not asking, or he isn’t what he claims to be.

In terms of the particular question of this thread, a 100 year old white American male who sends his wife out of the marital bedroom in the middle of the night when he’s writing down random thoughts he’s had in his sleep, probably isn’t the best person to look to for an answer.

From what I’ve seen, the answer to these types of question comes first to society, and then God prompts the Prophet via revelation to follow along, belatedly. Take the recent female temple garment changes - they’ve happened as a result of women in particular, wearing their temple garments less and less. And women in hot climates have been asking for change for decades and decades. This isn’t revelation. It’s just old men finally giving in.

Priesthood Authority is their last bastion of male control. In fact, Priesthood Authority IS male control. And that’s all it is. It’s simply a device for ensuring men make the decisions and control the organisation. Given that they spend a great deal of time selecting like-minded individuals, I don’t expect it to change for many many years. In fact, I don’t think there’s a currently serving Apostle that has the backbone to change it proactively. It would take a mass walkout of women, a complete “strike” by women in terms of refusing to serve in callings, temple attendance, etc before a change “becomes revealed”.

[MG 2.0]

Trying to bypass the lazy learner who seems focused on attacking the poster rather than the poster’s content.

Regards,
MG