LDS Church urges members to call out racism in their congregations

[Rivendale]

Let me see if I got this right. During the time you raised your hand to support leaders that enforced a temple ban on anyone with a drop of African American blood you had no moral compulsion to see this as immoral? You were ignorant of this? This is straight up white plantation owner logic with slavery.

Permission- not thinking about it to any extent that I can even remember... Although I may have read articles in Sunstone or Dialogue in the home I grew up in. Honestly, I don't have any firm memory of that. My high school years and permission are kind of a blur when it comes to things religious. On my mission- I don't think I really gave it any thought except for one time when we were teaching a black person and we weren't able to baptize him. I thought that was sad. After my mission- I went to BYU and simply got involved in school and work.

I do remember the time and place, however, when I heard about the change in the priesthood ordination policy and remember being excited for that. I was still single and living with roommates.

Regards,
MG

In retrospect this gives you no pause? I guess you ignored all the Jim Crow laws and all the lynching events because you were swimming in the river of youth which insulated you from the organization that you believed/believe is divinely inspired? Some of that can be excused as ignorant but not now.

[MG 2.0]

Permission- not thinking about it to any extent that I can even remember... Although I may have read articles in Sunstone or Dialogue in the home I grew up in. Honestly, I don't have any firm memory of that. My high school years and permission are kind of a blur when it comes to things religious. On my mission- I don't think I really gave it any thought except for one time when we were teaching a black person and we weren't able to baptize him. I thought that was sad. After my mission- I went to BYU and simply got involved in school and work.

I do remember the time and place, however, when I heard about the change in the priesthood ordination policy and remember being excited for that. I was still single and living with roommates.

Regards,
MG

In retrospect this gives you no pause? I guess you ignored all the Jim Crow laws and all the lynching events because you were swimming in the river of youth which insulated you from the organization that you believed/believe is divinely inspired? Some of that can be excused as ignorant but not now.

Nice to see you have a wee bit of flexibility there, Rivendale. Sometimes you and others come across as being a bit too rigid.

Regards,
MG

[Moksha]

My high school years and permission are kind of a blur when it comes to things religious. On my mission- I don't think I really gave it any thought except for one time when we were teaching a black person and we weren't able to baptize him.
Regards,
MG

Not me. I remember one Sunday when I was in the Teacher's Quorum, the instructor was going on a very racist screed about black people. I didn't want to speak up because there were a couple of older, mean-spirited bullies in the class, yet I did not want to hear that blatant racism, so I got up and walked out. Walking away from a poison message was a viable option for me, since I did not belong to an LDS family that would cast me out for doing so.

I came back the next Sunday, and fortunately, they had moved on to another topic, but I realized that until Spencer Kimball released the Church from the bonds of their racial policy, how far removed from the love of God the Church was.

Why was I without blinders? Just lucky, I guess, although I suspect my primary lessons on right and wrong fortified my character.

[MG 2.0]

My high school years and permission are kind of a blur when it comes to things religious. On my mission- I don't think I really gave it any thought except for one time when we were teaching a black person and we weren't able to baptize him.
Regards,
MG

Not me. I remember one Sunday when I was in the Teacher's Quorum, the instructor was going on a very racist screed about black people. I didn't want to speak up because there were a couple of older, mean-spirited bullies in the class, yet I did not want to hear that blatant racism, so I got up and walked out. Walking away from a poison message was a viable option for me, since I did not belong to an LDS family that would cast me out for doing so.

I came back the next Sunday, and fortunately, they had moved on to another topic, but I realized that until Spencer Kimball released the Church from the bonds of their racial policy, how far removed from the love of God the Church was.

Why was I without blinders? Just lucky, I guess, although I suspect my primary lessons on right and wrong fortified my character.

I think it does go to show that we all are in some ways a product of our environment and how we engage with it during any given time in our own evolutionary progression from birth through adulthood. That this 'racism' aspect of some of the LDS leaders didn't really cross my radar until adulthood is just...what it was. Although, again, I'm assuming that at some time I may have had some thoughts at and earlier time and it just didn't 'jar' me to the extent that you were moved in your early experience. Kind of crazy because I'm sure I came across some of this having read Armand Mauss when I would read my dad's Sunstone and Dialogue issues growing up in Southern California.

It's been so long ago that I actually have a hard time putting finger on timing as to what I thought...when. I was into a lot of the SC scene and associated activities and I know for a fact I was distracted from thinking too much about 'stuff'. I was more interested in other 'stuff'.

Reading Sunstone and Dialogue did have an influence, I'm sure, on my later questioning, starting more or less while I was out on my mission. Although, again, being intellectually immature I'm not sure I was able to put 2=2 together to equal anything else but four. When you're 'all in" you're all in until you have a chance to spread your wings and explore the world in more detail.

That came for me, more or less, later on in adulthood.

Regards,
MG

[Philo Sofee]

In retrospect this gives you no pause? I guess you ignored all the Jim Crow laws and all the lynching events because you were swimming in the river of youth which insulated you from the organization that you believed/believe is divinely inspired? Some of that can be excused as ignorant but not now.

Nice to see you have a wee bit of flexibility there, Rivendale. Sometimes you and others come across as being a bit too rigid.

Regards,
MG

Lousy dodging of the issue Rivendale raised, MG.

[MG 2.0]

Nice to see you have a wee bit of flexibility there, Rivendale. Sometimes you and others come across as being a bit too rigid.

Regards,
MG

Lousy dodging of the issue Rivendale raised, MG.

No dodge.

Regards,
MG

[Rivendale]

Lousy dodging of the issue Rivendale raised, MG.

No dodge.

Regards,
MG

Deliberate avoidance?

[MG 2.0]

No dodge.

Regards,
MG

Deliberate avoidance?

Nothing of the kind.

Regards,
MG

[I Have Questions]

I would read my dad's Sunstone and Dialogue issues growing up in Southern California.

<snip>

Reading Sunstone and Dialogue did have an influence, I'm sure, on my later questioning, starting more or less while I was out on my mission.

For reference:

Sunstone Magazine first started publication in 1974
Dialogue Magazine first started publication in 1978

Here’s what you said above…

I do remember the time and place, however, when I heard about the change in the priesthood ordination policy and remember being excited for that. I was still single and living with roommates.

So in 1978 when Dialogue was first published, were you reading your Dad’s copy at home whilst growing up, or were you single and living with roommates? It can be neither, but it cannot be both. Lying? Memory issues?

Note: You are now on 5,139 posts, seemingly you’re in a hurry to catch Gadianton up…

[Philo Sofee]

Lousy dodging of the issue Rivendale raised, MG.

No dodge.

Regards,
MG

So are you in mental decline then? This was clearly a dodge. Shall we take a vote?