Created???

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
I Have Questions
God
Posts: 1903
Joined: Tue May 23, 2023 9:09 am

Re: Created???

Post by I Have Questions »

MG 2.0 wrote:
Fri May 30, 2025 4:49 am
Gadianton wrote:
Fri May 30, 2025 4:32 am
Instead, you may wish to first learn what "theology" is before you continue to pepper the word randomly in your posts.

You can't answer me, because you don't know what "theology" is, and you've been barred from spamming this thread with A.I. output. So the best you can do is allude to a connection between Mormon beliefs and theology as found buried in some wall of text you already posted in the A.I. thread somewhere.

I know you will not engage in discussion. Trolls don't discuss.
If you look at the "wall of text" on the thread with A.I. permissions you will see that your "theology" is not congruent...in meaning...with the A.I. definition of theology in respect to Mormonism.

Fine. It's OK that you feel that way and want to disengage. There is Mormon Theology.

I can tell when I must be getting under someone's skin because they...some folks anyway...go the "troll" route. End of discussion.

Whatever.

Regards,
MG
So instead of spamming threads with walls of A.I. text, MG is now spamming threads by directing people to walls of A.I. text that he’s posted on the one thread where it’s allowed.

You simply cannot make this up!
Premise 1. Eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable.
Premise 2. The best evidence for the Book of Mormon is eyewitness testimony.
Conclusion. Therefore, the best evidence for the Book of Mormon is notoriously unreliable.
User avatar
Physics Guy
God
Posts: 1961
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2020 7:40 am
Location: on the battlefield of life

Re: Created???

Post by Physics Guy »

malkie wrote:
Fri May 30, 2025 1:42 am
Neither of us could get a handle on what it means to choose to believe something, especially in a religious sense, though apparently some people can do so.
I think it depends on exactly what one means by "believe". Belief is a somewhat fuzzy concept, and I think that there are real and important things which can reasonably count as forms of belief, and which one can or even must choose to do.

For instance, I believe that i times i is minus 1. To me this is a mathematical fact that by now is almost as familiar as two plus two being four. When I first learned to accept the concept of imaginary numbers, though, I think I must have found it difficult. I had no intuitive picture of what it meant for something times itself to be a negative number, the way I could picture two sets of two things merging into one set of four. I reckon I must have spent some time just saying, "Well, let's just say that it's so." Gradually it stopped taking effort. I began to take for granted that i squared was negative one, to consider that it was a fact.

Does this example really count as choosing to believe? It's a subtle point, but I think in the end that it does.

It's subtle because whether or not imaginary numbers exist isn't exactly an empirical question that has to be either true or false as a matter of fact. It's a game rule that we're allowed to invent; it extends the concept of multiplication, and even the concept of number. Accepting a weird rule as a rule in a game isn't the same as believing it's true.

On the other hand, though, when I really think hard about it, it's not so clear to me that two plus two being four is quite exactly an empirical fact. If I look closely, there also seems to be a subtle bit of rule invention involved just in deciding that two-ness and four-ness are general qualities that are independent of any particular sets of real items. I can't help concluding that basic arithmetic is also a game whose rules we have invented, or perhaps discovered. We keep playing it because it matches common patterns we see in the world. So when we say that we believe that two-plus-two equals four, we really aren't just saying that this is a rule in our game. We're saying the rule fits the world.

And the square root of minus one is the same kind of thing, a rule in a game that fits a lot of real things. So when I say that i times i is minus 1, I'm also really not just saying that we can play a game in which this is one of the rules. I'm also saying that it's a good game to play, because it fits the real world, albeit in less obvious ways than the way that two-plus-two fits the world. It's a game I play all the time, now.

There is no way that I could have gotten this comfortable with using imaginary numbers if I hadn't spent a long while just suspending disbelief, by deliberate choice, and thinking as though all their weird rules were true. The utility of imaginary numbers doesn't really show up until you see things like de Moivre's theorem about the exponential of an imaginary number, or how you can get real-number roots of a cubic equation by using imaginary numbers in your arithmetic. You need to choose to entertain the weird rules, and think with them, before you can see how they make sense.
I was a teenager before it was cool.
User avatar
Gadianton
God
Posts: 5432
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2020 11:56 pm
Location: Elsewhere

Re: Created???

Post by Gadianton »

Ego wrote:I used to work on trying to establish a formal theology for Mormonism building on thinkers like Mr. Smith or Mr. Nibley. I’ve largely given up the endeavor but I’d be happy to share my ideas if there’s interest. They were rooted largely in analytical philosophy of the phenomenological flavor, using axioms about love to justify things like God’s corporeal nature.
Welcome to the board and feel free to start a thread or speculate away on this one. Interest may be spotty, as your summary of your work sounds like actual theology to me, and I'll tell you one thread participant who won't be interested for sure, and that's MG, who doesn't know what theology is and doesn't realize that he doesn't like theology. I don't particularly like theology either, I barely can stand reading technical philosophy on subjects I'm interested in. MG thinks theology is just a quick and dirty summary of talking points. Of course, that's what he things science is also.

It's funny because one of the apologists MG likes, James Faulconer, went on a podcast MG has referenced in the past, Closer to Truth, and the first thing he said is that Mormonism doesn't have theologians and that there is no real theology, and that any theology is secondary and unofficial and opinion.

I have no doubts the early brethren tried their hands at theology and may have had some proto-candidates, but clearly, nothing stuck.
Social distancing has likely already begun to flatten the curve...Continue to research good antivirals and vaccine candidates. Make everyone wear masks. -- J.D. Vance
User avatar
Gadianton
God
Posts: 5432
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2020 11:56 pm
Location: Elsewhere

Re: Created???

Post by Gadianton »

Speaking of podcasts. Somehow YouTube figured out how to recommend a Dr. Dave video commenting on a recent clash between Eric Weinstein and Sean Carroll on Piers Morgan. Now I know where MG got that from. Holy cow, I was honestly blown away by Weinstein's bravery to talk down to and dismiss Carroll to his face. I figured it was always easy for him to be a big talker on Rogan when nobody is around who knows anything.

By the way, MG, your assessment doesn't stand because you said Weinstein is a physicist, and he's not a physicist.
Social distancing has likely already begun to flatten the curve...Continue to research good antivirals and vaccine candidates. Make everyone wear masks. -- J.D. Vance
User avatar
Everybody Wang Chung
God
Posts: 2602
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:52 am

Re: Created???

Post by Everybody Wang Chung »

Gadianton wrote:
Fri May 30, 2025 1:33 pm
By the way, MG, your assessment doesn't stand because you said Weinstein is a physicist, and he's not a physicist.
MG,

Did you really say Weinstein is a physicist? Why all the constant lying?

That’s some great missionary work.
"I'm on paid sabbatical from BYU in exchange for my promise to use this time to finish two books."

Daniel C. Peterson, 2014
User avatar
Rivendale
God
Posts: 1448
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2021 5:21 pm

Re: Created???

Post by Rivendale »

Gadianton wrote:
Fri May 30, 2025 1:33 pm
Speaking of podcasts. Somehow YouTube figured out how to recommend a Dr. Dave video commenting on a recent clash between Eric Weinstein and Sean Carroll on Piers Morgan. Now I know where MG got that from. Holy cow, I was honestly blown away by Weinstein's bravery to talk down to and dismiss Carroll to his face. I figured it was always easy for him to be a big talker on Rogan when nobody is around who knows anything.

By the way, MG, your assessment doesn't stand because you said Weinstein is a physicist, and he's not a physicist.
Right. Recently from Joe Rogan.
In the paper, Weinstein stated that he was "not a physicist" and that the paper was a "work of entertainment".
MG 2.0
God
Posts: 5438
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2021 4:45 pm

Re: Created???

Post by MG 2.0 »

Gadianton wrote:
Fri May 30, 2025 1:29 pm
[
It's funny because one of the apologists MG likes, James Faulconer, went on a podcast MG has referenced in the past, Closer to Truth, and the first thing he said is that Mormonism doesn't have theologians and that there is no real theology, and that any theology is secondary and unofficial and opinion.
It's interesting that throughout that interview Kuhn continually referred to "Mormon theology" as though it was a thing. I'm happy to go with that.

It was fun to watch Robert Lawrence Kuhn respond to the relatively simple and straightforward answers that Faulkconer gave and the times when he said there were things that are not known and different thinkers within Mormonism approach various questions.

It seemed to take him aback a bit that there weren't the long convoluted answers that he would typically get from other theologians.

https://closertotruth.com/video/jim-fau ... hilosophy/

Regards,
MG
Last edited by MG 2.0 on Fri May 30, 2025 8:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
MG 2.0
God
Posts: 5438
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2021 4:45 pm

Re: Created???

Post by MG 2.0 »

I Have Questions wrote:
Fri May 30, 2025 6:10 am
MG 2.0 wrote:
Fri May 30, 2025 4:49 am
So instead of spamming threads with walls of A.I. text, MG is now spamming threads by directing people to walls of A.I. text that he’s posted on the one thread where it’s allowed.

You simply cannot make this up!
I'm having to operate under the restrictions put in place by the board administrator.

A.I. is useful in order to quickly lay out and present relevant information, as I've mentioned before. Yes, now it will take a bit of toggling back and forth in order to access that information. Some will be willing to do that, others will not because they have simply concluded that it's a useless "wall of text".

It is what it is. I would prefer to post information within the thread at hand...but that is no longer possible.

Regards,
MG
MG 2.0
God
Posts: 5438
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2021 4:45 pm

Re: Created???

Post by MG 2.0 »

Everybody Wang Chung wrote:
Fri May 30, 2025 2:13 pm

Did you really say Weinstein is a physicist? Why all the constant lying?
I think there are those that refer to him as a "mathematical physicist". True, he is not a classical physicist and/or trained in that discipline. If this is a point of conflict for you, so be it.

Regards,
MG
MG 2.0
God
Posts: 5438
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2021 4:45 pm

Re: Created???

Post by MG 2.0 »

Gadianton wrote:
Fri May 30, 2025 4:32 am
Instead, you may wish to first learn what "theology" is before you continue to pepper the word randomly in your posts.

You can't answer me, because you don't know what "theology" is, and you've been barred from spamming this thread with A.I. output. So the best you can do is allude to a connection between Mormon beliefs and theology as found buried in some wall of text you already posted in the A.I. thread somewhere.
Wall of text:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=159903&start=100

(near bottom of page)

I think the conversation between Robert Kuhn and James Faulconer is a good place to start.

At the outset it is explained why "theology" may not be an adequate descriptor in explaining 'everything Mormon'.

And yet, Kuhn uses that term over and over.

Regards,
MG
Post Reply