The non-coin coin system of the Book of Mormon. Scam?

[I Have Questions]

For what it’s worth Shulem, I think your scholarship doesn’t get the recognition that it deserves.

[Moksha]

Since Teryl Givens describes the fictional Book of Mormon peoples as “pre-Christian Christians”, does it make sense to call the Book of Mormon economy a “pre-money monetary system?”

Pre-science Sci-Fi.

[Gadianton]

I caught part of it. The part about explaining the background more than the fictional author would have was a good point. And in support of that, noting the similarity to Adam Clarke's commentary. The main point not being that he must have copied that, but, that's the kind of information you get from a commentary, not the primary source.

[Shulem]

For what it’s worth Shulem, I think your scholarship doesn’t get the recognition that it deserves.

Thank you for those kind sentiments and vote of confidence.

I think we can all agree (including believers) that the senine is not the best choice of coins to compare with a farthing. It simply doesn't work. It's like a street bum asking for a hundred dollar bill rather than just a dollar. What street bum is going to walk up to a finely dressed lawyer and ask him to throw the value of a lawyer's daily salary into his donation bucket? That makes no sense. Neither does it make sense to require a large value when referring to the last penny owed for a bill in order to get out of jail.

Clearly, Joseph Smith goofed in recalling the senine rather than the leah while dictating the story to his scribe.

PS. I am holding out that RFM will do the right thing and correct the issue concerning the dog and cow. He has to or he will lose credibility with many of his listeners who are aware of the blunder and more so for refusing to do anything about it.

RFM, it will cost you $$$ in the long run if you do nothing. On the other hand, your podcast donations will go up *if* you sincerely prove your honestly and set the record right. How do I know this? I just do. Trust me.

[Moksha]

PS. I am holding out that RFM will do the right thing and correct the issue concerning the dog and cow.

I hope he can comply to satisfy you, Shulem. Dog and Pony shows that are off-kilter are fine with me. Maybe you should call in for one of the programs? You could add immensely to the data. Dan Vogel, Kishkumen, and Kerry Shirts have all done so.

[Shulem]

I hope he can comply to satisfy you, Shulem. Dog and Pony shows that are off-kilter are fine with me. Maybe you should call in for one of the programs? You could add immensely to the data. Dan Vogel, Kishkumen, and Kerry Shirts have all done so.

RFM has everything at his immediate disposal to correct the mistake without any further interaction from me. The question is whether he has the integrity to do so. I don't care to pass judgement on his integrity but it's on his head if he refuses to own up to his faulty presentation about the "big dog".

Look, I avoid the limelight and am best suited to work behind the scenes. That's how I operate.

[Shulem]

I noticed that MG dipped his toes in and then ran for the hills when he realized mercy can rob justice by a judge's daily take. The lurkers' testimonies must be getting crushed.

MG knows better now. Surely he's learned the value of a leah.

[Shulem]

Verily, verily, I say unto thee, thou shalt by no means come out thence until thou hast paid the uttermost senine.

In hindsight, critical analyses suggests the mention of the senine was not only an over valued coin when comparing it to the farthing but it also neglects to mention the other base metal of the Nephite monetary system: silver. The gold senine was the equivalent of a measure of grain; so also was the silver senum which also was the value of a measure of grain. So, it would have been more all encompassing if Jesus had said:

Verily, verily, I say unto thee, thou shalt by no means come out thence until thou hast paid the value of the uttermost measure of grain.

or

Verily, verily, I say unto thee, thou shalt by no means come out thence until thou hast paid the uttermost senine or senum.

Obviously, it's clear to me that Joseph Smith preferred gold in his storytelling and lots of it!

Yep.

[Shulem]

....verifiable evidence of the fictional Nephite/Lamanite civilizations.

You know, in all this conversation we neglected to question how the Lamanite and Nephite civilizations exchanged goods and services using money rather than barter. Think about it. Both civilizations ran concurrently for a thousand years and relations between them experienced both peace and war. There must have been means for monetary exchange between the Nephite money system and a Lamanite system. But the Book of Mormon fails to mention anything about how such transactions took place. Alma chapter 11 should have mentioned something to this effect. I see this as a large hole in the script that Smith failed to fill because he neglected to think things through more thoroughly.

Surely, the various Lamanite governments established their own system in which coins/weights were minted in order to facilitate a means to support the economy. Wouldn't you say?

[Ego]

....verifiable evidence of the fictional Nephite/Lamanite civilizations.

You know, in all this conversation we neglected to question how the Lamanite and Nephite civilizations exchanged goods and services using money rather than barter. Think about it. Both civilizations ran concurrently for a thousand years and relations between them experienced both peace and war. There must have been means for monetary exchange between the Nephite money system and a Lamanite system. But the Book of Mormon fails to mention anything about how such transactions took place. Alma chapter 11 should have mentioned something to this effect. I see this as a large hole in the script that Smith failed to fill because he neglected to think things through more thoroughly.

Surely, the various Lamanite governments established their own system in which coins/weights were minted in order to facilitate a means to support the economy. Wouldn't you say?

Mosiah 24: 1 And it came to pass that Amulon did gain favor in the eyes of the king of the Lamanites; therefore, the king of the Lamanites granted unto him and his brethren that they should be appointed teachers over his people
…

4 And he appointed teachers of the brethren of Amulon in every land which was possessed by his people; and thus the language of Nephi began to be taught among all the people of the Lamanites.

5 And they were a people friendly one with another; nevertheless they knew not God; neither did the brethren of Amulon teach them anything concerning the Lord their God, neither the law of Moses; nor did they teach them the words of Abinadi;

6 But they taught them that they should keep their record, and that they might write one to another.

7 And thus the Lamanites began to increase in riches, and began to trade one with another and wax great, and began to be a cunning and a wise people, as to the wisdom of the world, yea, a very cunning people, delighting in all manner of wickedness and plunder, except it were among their own brethren.

It appears that it is implied the Lamanites used the same system as the Nephites because of this cultural exchange that supposedly occurred.