Full Reichstag Fire

[Gadianton]

Tell me more about the highlighted point. "[ S ]omething that doesn't even exist," is a popular explanation for Antifa. I want to understand how you come to that conclusion. I disagree with it, but I want to understand it.

I was wrong. It does exist. I think I meant it doesn't exist as an organization, but that's the least part of my point so you can have it. Wiki calls it a decentralized movement. Hopefully you appreciate the meat of the post that associates an organization or movement with a word that is tied to an array of serious legal documents as highly Reichstag Fire like, without extremely good reason for doing so. And the more vague the organization, the more broadly the legal consequences of terrorism apply.

Here's another Reichstag Fire. Several of these news items are coming out about our Nazi police force who only fascists voted for, detaining legal immigrants at the airport and attempting deportation on the grounds that they are inadmissible. Whoah. wtf? Makes no sense. Granted, I haven't done a deep dive here, but I believe they are losing these cases. Let's say a person is legally immigrating here and commits aggravated assault in Utah. That's grounds for deportation. Obama did roundups all the time just like our wonderful Nazi police are today, removing people in this situation. Okay, so what, why not remove them as they come through the airport also? Sure, okay. It's just the charge is in the wrong category. You can simply try to remove them because they committed the crime here. Inadmissibility is a category for people who have never been here but are otherwise candidates for coming here. A person who committed assault in London is inadmissible. A Canadian with AIDS is inadmissible. It even weakens their case, why not make the right argument and increase their chances of winning?

Because if they can win some of these and establish a precedent, it opens Pandoras box. If a person with AIDS is inadmissible to the USA simpliciter, then why not send the Nazi soldiers to Utah hospitals to round up immigrants who contracted AIDS here, or why does it matter if they are even immigrants? If having AIDS makes a person inadmissible to the US, then a natural born citizen with AIDS should have never been here in the first place.

Another Reichstag Fire. Right now there are numbers you can call to report illegals. How many have you reported, Whiskey? If the answer is none, don't you think that lessens you as a good citizen? Well, I'll bet coming up, that legal immigrants will be required to report their illegal cousins or anybody they have knowledge of and attest to that as a condition of their own documentation. And that will eventually bleed into construction workers who are citizens being required to report violations by their own company.

Remember at BYU how you could anonymously report your fellow students for breaking the honor code? You could write the report and drop it in a box on campus? Were you the guy who did that all the time? Or were you the guy who defended the good names of those who did that all the time?

[Res Ipsa]

Trying to make sense of something based on the words that come out of Trump's mouth and thumbs, is a fool's errand.

True. I don't think his basic purpose is mysterious, but he does not speak and write in ways that make much sense.

I prefer the challenge of figuring out this "doesn't exist" and "exists" distinction without that dude's contribution. In fact, your post piques my interest more in the foundation of the "doesn't exist" explanation/rumor. Where did it really, really, really start?

Oh, well, I don't trust the Democrats when it comes to the claim that these things don't exist. I have noted many instances in which the first position they have taken is to act like something doesn't exist.

"What attack on Bernie Sanders?"

"What government collusion with the banks to root out Occupy Wall Street?"

"Occupy Wall Street has no objectives! They don't know what they want!"

It is one bizarre denial after another, to the point where I immediately question the idea that there is absolutely nothing underpinning the belief in the existence of Antifa, radical trans extremists, or some such.

I don't trust MAGA not to blow whatever it is they are talking about completely out of proportion and use labels in devious, divisive ways, but the Democrats have almost two decades of denying the existence of things that are pretty obviously in existence.

I think Antifa is a label best understood as a segment of a broader opposition to fascism. If you ask me "are you an anti-fascist," I'm going to answer "you bet I am." But there are folks that I suspect I would call violent anarchists (again, a small percentage of self-identified anarchists). We have had a cluster of these folks, centered around Eugene, OR, that would infiltrate peaceful protests and damage property: break store windows, burn police cars, etc. I first observed this during the WTO protests. It occurred during the BLM protests in 2020 as well.

It's a highly decentralized group of people. In the Pacific Northwest, they regularly rumbled with a group of Proud Boys https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proud_Boys centered around Vancouver, Washington. Basically, if you wear black bloc clothing and employ physical violence against certain right-wing groups, you can be fairly described as Antifa. For quite a while, the right-wing group in Vancouver would travel to Portland to confront any protest by folks on the left, and folks who self-affiliated with Antifa would physically engage them. However, some of the Antifa folks do view local police as a fascist organization and so they will confront and use violence on the police. The reverse happened as well.

I volunteer as a de-escalator for protest marches and demonstrations. There is some concern that the Proud Boys will show up to pick a fight, but I haven't seen any show up recently. I also haven't seen any Antifa presence. Both sides were like street gangs that got off on rumbling with each other. I saw no evidence of Antifa at the couple of big rallies held in Seattle, including the Hands Off and No Kings protests. If the Trump regime follows through and cracks down on protests and rallies, I expect they will show up more.

I don't consider them on my side. My side is the kind of mass, peaceful protests we've seen throughout the summer by millions of people.

When people say "there is no such thing as Antifa," I think that they are referring to fact that there is no organization called Antifa. There is no leader, no spokesperson, no office, no structure. I think it's a useful label to describe a relatively small group of extremists.

As for violent radical trans organizations, there are extremists among almost any demographic you choose. The claim on the right that identifying as transgender is a violent ideology is pure conspiracy theory that is tantamount to blood libel. It's another step in the deliberate dehumanization of trans men and women that will serve as a pretext for stripping them of their rights.

[Whiskey]

As for violent radical trans organizations, there are extremists among almost any demographic you choose. The claim on the right that identifying as transgender is a violent ideology is pure conspiracy theory that is tantamount to blood libel. It's another step in the deliberate dehumanization of trans men and women that will serve as a pretext for stripping them of their rights.

Could be. Very well could be.

The extremes are in "I accept your conditions" mode on this. That has trended more and more to the middle to the point where an average joe or jane may arrive at that conclusion.

To put it in plain terms, it goes a bit like this. "Oh, you think I am Hitler, Nazi, fascist? And, you say you are non-violent?" Yeah, Screw you and “F” that crap, liar. Years ago, I had NEVER heard of a violent trans situation and the thought would never cross my mind. I was thinking Hijras and Ladyboys unite. Come on over to the wedding party. Now.... nope. Not after parenting boys in SF and seeing that crap go down in those schools.

Do I think trans people are a threat to me or my family? Hell NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is not my point at all. My point is that the reputation for violence and being a threat evolved and that evolution stems from credibility and not just actual acts of violence. Warranted and fair? Probably not. But it is damn sure explainable for how we got here.

[canpakes]

And - if Antifa is "something that doesn't even exist," could the same be said about semi-fascists? Where do we draw the distinctions on existence or not?

I have been uncertain about this, just as I am uncertain about the claim that there are no extremist trans activists. I mean, who were the dudes who showed up at rallies to punch Neo-Nazis? The ones wearing makeshift body armor and such? I guess there is no Antifa headquarters and PO Box?

[canpakes]

Some of these things seem unusual and authoritarian.

In the first eight months of Trump’s second presidency, federal agencies have been caught lying or twisting the truth to fit various White House narratives over and over again.

In California, DHS section chief Greg Bovino lied about protesters assaulting immigration agents — at least twice — in addition to saying his agents were only targeting migrants with criminal records during a raid in which 77 of the 78 people arrested had no prior record. (Protests and alleged attacks against ICE agents in Los Angeles were used as justification to send in the National Guard and Marines. A federal judge in California ruled that this was a blatant violation of the Posse Comitatus Act.)

Meanwhile, federal officials appear to be exaggerating claims of a coordinated attack on immigration agents elsewhere in Texas. Federal prosecutors in the case of a July attack on law enforcement at an ICE facility in Prairieland have changed their description of events there.

The initial press release from ICE claimed that “nearly a dozen violent assailants equipped with tactical gear and weapons” carried out the attack in Prairieland. But on Wednesday, Patel himself referenced only a lone “individual” involved in the attack. Still, more than a dozen people remain in jail awaiting trial for their alleged involvement in the case.

In Washington DC, former Fox News host turned US Attorney Jeanine Pirro has dropped 11 of her own cases against people accused of assaulting law enforcement because the evidence didn’t add up. In at least one case, Pirro’s office admitted it had reviewed evidence against a defendant accused of injuring a DHS agent only to find the man had never committed the crime for which he was charged.

Last month, Trump fired the head of the Bureau of Labor Statistics for reporting jobs numbers that showed a weakening economy. Trump’s replacement was the “utterly unqualified” EJ Antoni, who is expected to provide Americans with numbers that are favorable to Trump but not necessarily true. Economists on both the left and the right now say that labor numbers coming from Antoni’s agency can’t be trusted.

Meanwhile, the US military has now carried out three attacks on civilian vessels in international waters, killing 17. The White House says the military is killing drug traffickers, but one former federal law enforcement official told the New York Times that those on board were more likely to be migrants trying to make it to the United States.
…
Trump has also mobilized the entire federal government to justify his incessant lies about elections, which now threaten the viability of next year’s midterms.

The president has continued to lie about the integrity of voting machines and mail-in voting, threatening to do away with both despite not having the constitutional power to do so. Lies about widespread illegal voting by undocumented immigrants are at the heart of Justice Department’s demands for lists of registered voters in more than 30 states. The DOJ’s Voting Rights Section has been turned on its head and is now conducting investigations based not on protecting Americans’ right to vote, but on Trump’s election lies.

from: https://substack.com/@justinglawe/note/ ... are-action

[drumdude]

Let's assume the best case, that Trump isn't competent enough to pull off a full demolition of the US government. That this is something less than a Reichstag Fire moment.

The amount of damage he has done and is continuing to do is almost immeasurable. Even if a Democrat somehow took office tomorrow, it would take probably a decade just to get back to where we were a year ago. And this is around very basic stuff - services, benefits, institutional knowledge, trained government employees, documents, data, analysis... they're all being thrown away like they're nothing.

And like a tree, once chopped down they take a generation or more to regrow.

Look at the damage COVID did to many private sector areas - this is like that but intentional and inflicted willingly by our government on our government.

[canpakes]

The Trump Administration is now publishing an enemies list of Democratic Party-aligned politicians and citizens that it claims have been “inciting a 1,000% surge in assaults on agents and a wave of Radical Left terror.”

Remember, if the Administration can simply claim they’re terrorists, then the Administration is setting up their next steps.

Perhaps the board’s MAGA cohort can point out a previous example from their lifetimes when they’ve seen an Administration taking America down this authoritarian road.

The carnage in Dallas, Texas — where a maniac with “ANTI-ICE” ammo gunned down an ICE field office in an attack clearly targeted at ICE personnel — lays bare the deadly consequences of Democrats’ unhinged crusade against our border enforcement.

Democrats have spent years vilifying ICE as “fascists,” “the Gestapo,” and “slave patrols,” inciting a 1,000% surge in assaults on agents and a wave of Radical Left terror. Their words aren’t just reckless — they’re a battle cry for violence.

• Gov. Tim Walz smeared ICE as the “modern-day Gestapo.”

• Gov. Gavin Newsom likened ICE to “secret police,” calling them “authoritarian” and proclaiming a “right to push back.”

• Gov. JB Pritzker claimed the country is becoming “Nazi Germany” because ICE is “grabbing people off the street… and disappearing them.”

• Rep. Robin Kelly smeared ICE as the “Gestapo” and a “betrayal.”

• Rep. Jasmine Crockett compared ICE to “slave patrols.”

• Rep. Sylvia Garcia referred to ICE agents as “thugs.”

• Rep. Delia Ramirez attacked ICE as “a terror force.”

• Rep. Pramila Jayapal called ICE agents “deranged,” accused them of “kidnapping,” and said “resistance” to ICE is “inspiring.”

• Rep. Rashida Tlaib said ICE is “terrorizing our communities” and “turning our country into a fascist police state,” and called it a “rogue agency.”

• Rep. Ayanna Pressley said ICE is “terrorizing our communities.”

• Rep. Max Frost compared ICE operations to “some of the worst horrors and crimes against humanity” in history.

• Rep. John Larson said ICE is “the SS” and “the Gestapo.”

• Rep. LaMonica McIver incited people to “shut down the city” because “we are at war.”

• Rep. Stephen Lynch smeared ICE agents as “the Gestapo” and “nondescript thugs.”

• Rep. Dan Goldman compared federal agents to “secret police” who must be unmasked.

• Rep. Becca Balint called ICE agents “vigilantes” who can’t be trusted.

• Rep. Ilhan Omar said ICE agents are “vile and beyond cruel,” and that the agency should be abolished.

• Rep. Nikki Budzinski called ICE agents “dangerous and reckless.”

• Sen. Bernie Sanders asked people to “figure out a way to stop ICE from what they are doing as soon as possible.”

• Sen. Elizabeth Warren claimed ICE is “intentionally stok[ing] fear” and “tear[ing] communities apart.”

• Rep. Hakeem Jeffries implored people to “fight” the Trump Administration “in the streets” and declared ICE agents “will be unsuccessful” in protecting their identities “no matter what it takes.”

• Boston Mayor Michelle Wu compared ICE agents to the neo-Nazi group NSC-131.

• Chicago Mayor Brandon Johnson accused ICE of being “secret police” who are “terrorizing our communities.”

• Los Angeles Mayor Karen Bass spread a disgusting, fabricated hoax that ICE “kidnapped” a woman on her way to work.

• Rep. Gil Cisneros claimed ICE has “terrorized” people through “racial profiling.”

• Rep. Eric Swalwell said it was his “priority” to ensure ICE agents “are no longer faceless,” comparing them to “some 1800s bank robber or some KGB officer in Russia.”

• Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez said ICE “should not exist.”

• Rep. Kweisi Mfume challenged the Trump Administration to “a street fight.”

• Rep. Jerry Nadler accused ICE agents of “hiding misbehavior because otherwise why would they be wearing masks?”

https://www.whitehouse.gov/articles/202 ... bloodshed/

[Whiskey]

Oh gracious. A list?

Nobody cares.

[canpakes]

Oh gracious. A list?

Nobody cares.

You don’t need to, nor does anyone expect you to. Others will care.

[I Have Questions]

Is Portland now in a state of informal civil war?