How often "plates" are discussed here.

[malkie]

My wife - Sister E - & I had been married for only a few months at that time, and had been a committed member for about 6 years

So by that point, did you already know the Joseph Smith story? Curious how the tale of gold plates and angels came across to someone on the other side of the table.

Look for a PM tomorrow, Gad - it was a bit unusual

[Limnor]

Sister S - "I testify to you, Brother malkie, that what I've told you is true. Sister A, would you like to say anything to Brother malkie?"
Sister A - "We believe that -- I mean, I know that -- I mean, if you will -- ", followed by a red-faced total silence, and eyes pleading with Sister S for rescue.
Sister S - "What Sister A means is that ---".

My wife - Sister E - & I had been married for only a few months at that time, and had been a committed member for about 6 years. She was mortified as she watched this play out.

But this kind of thing is almost inevitable, given the circumstances that these poor young folks are thrust into.

That actually says a lot about the way it seems to work. The “truth” seems somewhat undefined so that she had to learn how to say it the “right” way under pressure? Again, not necessarily deception, just learning how to play the role?

[malkie]

Sister S - "I testify to you, Brother malkie, that what I've told you is true. Sister A, would you like to say anything to Brother malkie?"
Sister A - "We believe that -- I mean, I know that -- I mean, if you will -- ", followed by a red-faced total silence, and eyes pleading with Sister S for rescue.
Sister S - "What Sister A means is that ---".

My wife - Sister E - & I had been married for only a few months at that time, and had been a committed member for about 6 years. She was mortified as she watched this play out.

But this kind of thing is almost inevitable, given the circumstances that these poor young folks are thrust into.

That actually says a lot about the way it seems to work. The “truth” seems somewhat undefined so that she had to learn how to say it the “right” way under pressure? Again, not necessarily deception, just learning how to play the role?

Spontaneity was not encouraged by the "system". Missionaries who stepped far enough outside the system could be threatened with a dishonourable return.

[Limnor]

My wife - Sister E - & I had been married for only a few months at that time, and had been a committed member for about 6 years

So by that point, did you already know the Joseph Smith story? Curious how the tale of gold plates and angels came across to someone on the other side of the table.

I can relate a story about this. A few days after the fellow at work had quoted James to me, a couple missionaries showed up at the door. This was sometime around the ‘99-‘00 timeframe in Omaha NE.

The fellows—I’ve long forgotten their names—introduced themselves as elders, which was and still does seem odd to me. An “elder” at 18-19 years old? Ok right… One of them seemed to be the lead and we squabbled about passages in the Bible for a bit and it was clear there were different interpretations. At that time I had no idea at all about Mormonism except for polygamy and a book.

We never talked about gold plates or angels, but at one point the “lead” looked up a little behind me as if he was seeing something and I sort of glanced in that direction but he didn’t go any further to describe anything—I thought at the time he was going to give me some indication that he had a vision or something but he didn’t. I almost laughed but thought better of it. I had an interlinear Bible at the time with Greek and Hebrew originals, and the secondary guy said something like “that’s a good Bible” before they left.

Bottom line? A couple of kids came to my house and attempted to tell me how I should interpret the Bible. I’d describe the event as mostly puzzling, with probably little real gain of understanding on either side. I don’t remember any words about Joseph, gold plates, or angels, as the exchange was really focused on Bible bashing. I have an uncle who is Mormon but I had never spoken to him at all about his faith, so this event was really my first experience with the Mormon world.

[Limnor]

I was at the point that I "wanted to want to be there" for the first few months, but then regressed to suffering it out, having pretty much lost my belief in the church about halfway through.

Where were you? Also was there anything in particular that happened that contributed to the loss of belief?

he bore testimony to some folks we tracted out, I kid you not, of how great America is with Pizza Hut and McDonalds everywhere, and how much he hated the food where he was at.

I’m trying to better understand this—does this mean he bore his testimony about the church and the book or bear his testimony about American food? Serious question—bearing testimony and calling people to repentance within the Mormon context confuses me at times.

These are the guys who want to get in with the mission president and general authorities, they're into keeping all the rules and being the boss.

Why? Is there some perk? You go home at the end and get a job or go to school right? Do missionary points add to a resume?

they've already accepted failure from day 1.

This is actually kind of sad.

Thanks for explaining, gad.

[Gadianton]

Look for a PM tomorrow, Gad - it was a bit unusual

Looking...

[Gadianton]

I still get locked into Mormonese myself and things don't come out clear. When you knock on doors and someone lets you in and lets you give your sales pitch, you're supposed to "testify" of Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon, meaning, tell them the book changed your life and that you know Joseph Smith was a prophet. Because we're not locals, this generally interests people far more than the religious message. And so instead of telling these folks about Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon like he was supposed to, he was easily baited into telling them about his life as an American, which amounted to Pizza Hut and fast food, and he spoke about this with the same conviction and enthusiasm that should have been reserved for speaking of Joseph Smith.

Lots of things contribute to loss of belief, reading Bible commentaries was one of those, but I'd say a steady pressure was becoming convinced that the leaders were right, that the purpose of our lives is to build the kingdom -- to have few thoughts other than about "the work". And it's such a futile perspective because people obviously aren't interested, and it's also obvious that their lives aren't going to get any better, generally speaking, by joining. It's hard to overestimate just how resistant the typical missionary is to changing perspective from their own lives and happiness being at the center of the universe rather than what their leaders are telling them the point of our lives is -- growing the kingdom. Most just compartmentalize the expectation of leaders, suffer, and then resume their lives as members where they themselves, personally, are once again the center of the universe.

The benefits of getting in with leaders is just status, Mormons are big on being impressed by titles for some reason. Missionaries will get star struck by GAs coming through and some will become motivated to achieve that world for themselves.

[malkie]

Look for a PM tomorrow, Gad - it was a bit unusual

Looking...

Time to refresh ...

[I Have Questions]

Looking...

Time to refresh ...

Stop flirting you two, and get a room

[malkie]

Time to refresh ...

Stop flirting you two, and get a room

Enough of the innuendo, IHQ - Gad & I are discussing spiritual "things of the kingdom", if you don't mind