Blake Ostlerism

[drumdude]

Mormon theology doesn’t really follow implications though. If that happens to contradict the teaching about personal agency, then both stand in direct contradiction.

Which isn’t necessarily a bad thing. Catholicism is at least honest and labels these “mysteries of faith.”

[I Have Questions]

Mormon theology doesn’t really follow implications though. If that happens to contradict the teaching about personal agency, then both stand in direct contradiction.

Which isn’t necessarily a bad thing. Catholicism is at least honest and labels these “mysteries of faith.”

Yes, the doctrine that you can get into the Celestial Kingdom by avoiding learning anything about the Church seems counter productive. For instance, it means the missionary programme is just about tripping people up so they don’t get to the Celestial Kingdom, and have to settle for one of the lesser kingdoms.

Let’s say you’re one of those people who God knows from the outset is gaining the Celestial Kingdom if you don’t get to hear about Mormonism. You’re guaranteed the top level so long as you don’t come across the missionaries or a well-meaning member trying to recruit more members. But unfortunately one day you get surprised. Your wife has let the missionaries in because she’s a kind person. The next thing you know you’re on the clock. One false move and what you would have attained no questions asked, despite drinking and smoking and enjoying coffee and retaining 100% of your income, will be gone.

If the objective is to get as many people back to the Celestial Kingdom as possible, the best thing God can do is wipe Mormonism from the face of the earth.

[malkie]

[Limnor]

Please understand I’m not seeking to justify LDS theology—truth is I’m sniffing out an inconsistency that I hadn’t noticed before.

The only way babies would deserve hell is if there is an assumption of inherited guilt from Adam. Without that, there’s nothing for a baby to “deserve” in the first place.

So, humans can just pick and choose what God demands? It’s not like God gives two craps about babies, anyway. By his demand they must be pure to be in his presence. That’s the whole point of atonement, and why so many Christian traditions baptize their babies.

I’m just curious about the Mormon view—If Mormonism says infants are affected by the Fall and are not “pure,” but also says they’re not guilty and are automatically saved, then what the atonement for again?

[Limnor]

But for the problem at hand, there is no theology or statements in scripture to make sense of the nature of children. You have the Book of Mormon virtue signaling on the one hand "All mankind is carnal and devilish" and on the other "Children are alive in Christ!". This is probably more about identity -- feigned outrage, defining themselves against the great and abominable Catholic church, without thinking very deeply about it. How dare you baptize babies, how can a baby do anything wrong!

I think this is a clean take—just a means in which to stand in opposition. Its the opposition that counts, not the solution.

[huckelberry]

Mormon theology doesn’t really follow implications though. If that happens to contradict the teaching about personal agency, then both stand in direct contradiction.

Which isn’t necessarily a bad thing. Catholicism is at least honest and labels these “mysteries of faith.”

Yes, the doctrine that you can get into the Celestial Kingdom by avoiding learning anything about the Church seems counter productive. For instance, it means the missionary programme is just about tripping people up so they don’t get to the Celestial Kingdom, and have to settle for one of the lesser kingdoms.

Let’s say you’re one of those people who God knows from the outset is gaining the Celestial Kingdom if you don’t get to hear about Mormonism. You’re guaranteed the top level so long as you don’t come across the missionaries or a well-meaning member trying to recruit more members. But unfortunately one day you get surprised. Your wife has let the missionaries in because she’s a kind person. The next thing you know you’re on the clock. One false move and what you would have attained no questions asked, despite drinking and smoking and enjoying coffee and retaining 100% of your income, will be gone.

If the objective is to get as many people back to the Celestial Kingdom as possible, the best thing God can do is wipe Mormonism from the face of the earth.

The doctrine as posted previous post is the only way I ever heard it. It refers to people who would have received it if they heard. That would mean people happy and glad to get the chance to do all that LDS work. People who would not jump at the chance do not get a get out of jail free card by not hearing or dieing young.

I thought Mormons taught progression not just a chance to wear a crown sitting in a high chair.
(Questions , you provided the quote I was thinking of previous page)

[I Have Questions]

The doctrine as posted previous post is the only way I ever heard it. It refers to people who would have received it if they heard. That would mean people happy and glad to get the chance to do all that LDS work. People who would not jump at the chance do not get a get out of jail free card by not hearing or dieing young.

I thought Mormons taught progression not just a chance to wear a crown sitting in a high chair.
(Questions , you provided the quote I was thinking of previous page)

The implication of that doctrine is that God knows already who is going to end up where, but uses Mormonism to give those people with the Celestial Kingdom as their destiny the chance to fail. Mormon doctrine lacks any internal consistency.

[Kishkumen]

Blake Ostler is a blowhard and a bully who thinks he knows or at least acts like he knows many things he does not. This makes him a big player in LDS apologetics. He is also a Trump loser. He therefore fits in with a large portion of the American LDS demographic and gives young people a kind of intellectual leader, albeit a poor one.

[Philo Sofee]

Blake Ostler is a blowhard and a bully who thinks he knows or at least acts like he knows many things he does not. This makes him a big player in LDS apologetics. He is also a Trump loser. He therefore fits in with a large portion of the American LDS demographic and gives young people a kind of intellectual leader, albeit a poor one.

Blake Ostler is pro Trump? Am I reading that right Kish?

[huckelberry]

Blake Ostler is a blowhard and a bully who thinks he knows or at least acts like he knows many things he does not. This makes him a big player in LDS apologetics. He is also a Trump loser. He therefore fits in with a large portion of the American LDS demographic and gives young people a kind of intellectual leader, albeit a poor one.

Blake Ostler is pro Trump? Am I reading that right Kish?

i am surprised by this. I do not fallow Mr Ostler so do not know what is happening. I got the i mpression that the man thought for himself for better or worse. Thinking does not guarantee an outcome of course but Trump,?