Mormonism as Christianity- a proof from an outside perpsective

[LittleNipper]

Mormonism is a cult. Jehovah's Witnesses are a cult. The way one can come to such a conclusion is their stance that "they" only posses the truth and everyone else is apostate. Generally, they speak about the "FULLNESS" of the Gospel. Catholics do this to a degree. Primarily, they are substantiating why everyone should attend their "church" and no other.

[Physics Guy]

I kind of agree that Mormonism and JW-ism are at least closer to the cult end of the spectrum than a lot of other denominations, and that having membership in the group itself as a really important part of the belief system is part of that. On the other hand, though, neither Mormons nor Jehovah's Witnesses are really deep in the cult range. It's not as though they're all living in compounds.

I don't think that religion is really one kind of thing, except very loosely. "Religion" isn't a narrow product category, like "smart phone". Especially if one has grown up in an even slightly demanding religion, one may be tempted to suppose that all other religions must be alternative brands of the same kind of product, Androids versus the familiar iPhone. In fact it can be shocking how different religions seem to have quite different kinds of concern. Where Christianity is all about individuals believing tricky sets of ideas, Islam is mainly about how a good society should work. Judging one religion against another can be like comparing and an X-Box with a Ferrari.

Providing community and identity is something most religions offer to one degree or another, but it's a bigger feature of some religions than of others, and it doesn't always work the same way. Some religions offer membership in a small elite, while others emphasise belonging to a big tent.

[LittleNipper]

I see Christianity as a personal relationship between GOD and individual humans. Mormonism is a religion of dos and don'ts.

[Physics Guy]

The idea that Christianity is about a personal relationship with God is a familiar trope of evangelical Christianity. It's a popular slogan. There may ultimately be something to it, but I haven't found that it's really as easy as people like to make it sound. The basic problem is that if I'm walking down the street and I call out, "Hey, God, how's it going?" then there is no answer from God.

My relationships with other humans are concretely conducted through regular two-way dialog. I call people up, or send them texts, and they answer; or they call or text me. With some people I regularly exchange hugs or share meals. Now, one can try to interpret events in one's life, or thoughts that pop into one's head, or Scripture verses that come to attention, and so on, as communications from God. This is always ambiguous, though.

Every electron and every photon is God's. So every breeze that blows past my face, and every synapse that fires in my brain, could in principle be a message to me from God. The universe does not revolve around me, though. Most of those things that I perceive in the world, and even in my own brain, are probably not specifically aimed at me. Which ones are, if there even are any?

The danger of judging this wrong is severe. It's idolatry. To decide that a few chance events in one's day, or a glitch in one's brain, must be the word of the LORD, can be just as much making a god for oneself as carving an idol from wood. What one may tell oneself is a personal relationship with God can in reality be nothing but having an imaginary friend, a graven image made up of wishes and fears—especially the desire to feel special and valued, and the fear of being alone. Hearing the voice of God in one's own life may really just be hearing one's own thoughts and feelings, and projecting them onto God.

The awful old religious rules of discipline and tradition can at least be a safeguard against that.

One of the themes that Jesus repeatedly emphasized was the need to do, not just to hear. The parable about the houses built on rock versus sand is not about basing one's life "on Jesus" or "on a personal relationship with God", as opposed to basing it on worldly things. No, the parable's introduction is clear: the difference between the sand and the rock is the difference between hearing and doing. Even words from God are just words, if one just lets them stay words, and they can collapse into nothing.

If one gets serious about doing things that Jesus commanded, then rules and discipline and structure can be powerful tools. They may not be ends in themselves, but they may be means that we can't afford to ignore, if we take doing seriously, and don't want to just end up playing imaginary games with an imaginary friend.

[LittleNipper]

This hymn for me speaks to the issue brought up above: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeJw_Lm9ohY

[Physics Guy]

Thanks for the link! I've always liked that hymn, too.

[LittleNipper]

I've always loved the line "In the rustling grass I hear HIM pass." I grew up next to a farm and I'd often see the wind moving the stalks of feed corn, and I'd think of the verse my Sunday School teacher once read: John 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

The thing is that Christianity is all about spreading the GOSPEL massage and reaching the lost for our LORD Jesus Christ. Yes, Christians share this from the Bible but they don't try to sell individuals on a book. Christians present it and move on with the Word of GOD.

The LDS church missionaries go door to door selling the validity of their book and the validity of their prophet. The salvation message if mentioned at all is certainly not at the top of their list. The verse they habitually present as worth reading is "And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost" (Moroni 10:4)

There is no equivalent in the Bible regarding the truthfulness of the Bible. The closest equivalent is James 1:5-6 5 If any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to you. 6 But when you ask, you must believe and not doubt, because the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind.

However this is concerning life choices, spiritual wisdom and understanding of what GOD is revealing and HIS salvation. This has nothing about acceptance concerning any of the Biblical books nor the validity of any prophet. There is provided tests for a prophet:

According to Scripture, true prophets ...

Make predictions that “come to pass” (Jeremiah 28:9)
Glorify God rather than themselves (John 16:13)
Do not give their own private interpretations (2 Peter 1:20, 21)
Point out sin (Micah 3:5–8)
Warn of coming judgment (Isaiah 24:20, 21)
Edify the church (1 Corinthians 14:3, 4)
Give messages that harmonize with the Bible (Isaiah 8:20)
Teach that Jesus came in the flesh (1 John 4:1–3)
Have a Christ-like character (Matthew 7:16–20).
Are obedient to the will of God (Deuteronomy 18:18).

Does Joseph Smith fit the bill?