Vaccines and Therapeutics 2.0 & 3.0 Merge

[Res Ipsa]

Let me try from another angle. The collection of statements can be true if and only if we equivocate on the meaning of the word "works." Equivocation being the logical fallacy that it is, if the statements together are logically true, they are also trivial.

Once the equivocation fallacy is cured by sticking to a single definition of the word "works," the collection of statements is false.

This is not any sort of meaningful insight. It's the equivalent of a cheap parlor trick. There is enough confusion within the general public about vaccines without throwing word games into the mix.

I agree with this in every way. I even agree with the last sentence. In fact, I agree with the last sentence the most which is why I made the comment.

Well said and well written.

Thank you. So, have you seen similar equivocation in the thread?

[Jersey Girl]

Which policies? State policy examples.

your local policies.

Oh. Well it would appear that the hospital policy has changed regarding pediatric patients. It's weird because I was just in the hospital accompanying an adult patient, I forget, 3 weeks ago? I was allowed to go everywhere and I was also allowed to take off my mask in the room. And before that as well with adult patients, 2 other times. That's 2 adults, more than one surgery. Three different hospitals. Go figure. I would say that the pediatric policy must've recently changed on account of the surges in new cases re: Delta variant. I do worry about what that does to the pediatric patient who has to go it alone without their adult support system. But those were the exact policies that were in place during lock downs. Anyone who goes in, goes alone. Adult or child. No exceptions.

School policies haven't been published yet for the upcoming school year. I think it should be all masked or no masked at all. Regardless of vaccination. All or nothing on masks. I dislike Biden's suggestion to put up vaccination clinics at schools if those are going to pop up during school hours. “F” that. Don't do it.

Grocery stores locally have no masking policy in place. The CDC has just updated their recommendation suggesting indoor masking for everyone in large crowds or where social distancing isn't feasible. I go into the stores intermittently but I don't stay long. The stores where I live aren't crowded to start with and they really were.

In any case, I think we're headed back into lock down in early fall. Looks like Biden is now pissed off and bewildered by the vaccine hesitant. All I can say is join the club. The vaccine hesitant didn't happen overnight. It's not due to a single cause. It's multiple causes woven together over time.

I do think FDA approval would go at least part of the way to get more vaccinated. As of today at this very time, over 500 thousand people were vaccinated in the country today alone. I'll check that again later when the stats by state come in just to be sure. I think those might be people seeing the surges and scared shitless of the Delta variant, or simply not wanting to go back into lock downs again. The map that I watch is turning red all over again. It could just be people residing in places like CA whose hands are before forced to vaccinate on account of their employment.

[Res Ipsa]

Thank you. So, have you seen similar equivocation in the thread?

By the way. on the other thread, I think you are being obtuse and deliberate. My compliment on this thread was sincere.

Have I seen similar equivocation in this thread? Yes. Though, perhaps not what you think. I see it in the data more than I see it in the comments. I see conclusions made from sources that are packed with purposeful equivocation and possible prevarication. I do not know the characters behind the pictures and names here well enough to conclude outright equivocation. I have deployed equivocation but not so much regarding vaccine efficacy.

Common problem with message board communication. My thanks and my question were sincere. I was curious about what led to you making the point. Which sources cited here do you think are packed with equivocation and possible prevarication. I have not investigated any of them.

[MeDotOrg]

In Missouri doctors are reporting patients who want to be vaccinated in secret, because they are afraid of the condemnation of their friends and family if they found out they were vaccinated:

The Covid-19 vaccine has become so polarizing that some people in Missouri are getting inoculated in secret for fear of backlash from their friends and family who oppose vaccination, a doctor told CNN on Wednesday.

"They've had some experience that's sort of changed their mind from the viewpoint of those in their family, those in their friendship circles or their work circles. And they came to their own decision that they wanted to get a vaccine," said Dr. Priscilla Frase, a hospitalist and chief medical information officer at Ozarks Healthcare in West Plains, Missouri.

"They did their own research on it, and they talked to people and made the decisions themselves," Frase told CNN's Anderson Cooper. "But even though they were able to make that decision themselves, they didn't want to have to deal with the peer pressure or the outbursts from other people about them ... 'giving in to everything.'"

In a hospital produced video, Frase said one pharmacist at her hospital told her "they've had several people come in to get vaccinated who have tried to sort of disguise their appearance and even went so far as to say, 'please, please, please don't let anybody know that I got this vaccine.'"

Missouri seems to be having a state-wide contest for the Darwin Awards.

[Res Ipsa]

I thought that policies at hospitals, schools and stores would matter to people. Turns out beaches should have been on the list. And it turns out, that all that crap you heard about the unvaccinated wasn't true.

As of Thursday, 882 people were tied to the Provincetown outbreak. Among those living in Massachusetts, 74% of them were fully immunized, yet officials said the vast majority were also reporting symptoms. Seven people were reported hospitalized.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/cdc-mas ... d=79148102

This is going to get a lot worse.

Your trolling or the pandemic? You’re making unjustified leaps from the contents of a news reporter who hasn’t seen an investigation report. Not to mention taking a single news story as gospel truth. It’s more data that may give us useful information. But your reaction to data you haven’t even seen yet is an interesting contrast with your out of hand rejection of a literature review based on nothing more than hand waving.

[Res Ipsa]

D'oh. Oopsie. Vaccine ain't workin. Dang.

https://www.fox5ny.com/news/find-out-White House ... les-county

Define “workin”

[canpakes]

D'oh. Oopsie. Vaccine ain't workin. Dang.

https://www.fox5ny.com/news/find-out-White House ... les-county

Define “workin”

Seems to be ‘not working’ pretty poorly, but ‘working’ fairly well.

According to Ferrer, of all the people hospitalized in the county in June, 92% were either unvaccinated entirely or not fully vaccinated. The figure was 95% in May. For the first 10 days of July, the rate is 91%. Among people dying from the virus, 99.8% of the COVID fatalities in the county during the first six months of the year occurred among the unvaccinated, Ferrer said.

[Res Ipsa]

Your trolling or the pandemic? You’re making unjustified leaps from the contents of a news reporter who hasn’t seen an investigation report. Not to mention taking a single news story as gospel truth. It’s more data that may give us useful information. But your reaction to data you haven’t even seen yet is an interesting contrast with your out of hand rejection of a literature review based on nothing more than hand waving.

well played, and played again with the working reference.

I am making the same point again again.

No, you’re really not. You’re just throwing stuff out, often in a misleading manner. Then when someone corrects your misleading description, you say “yeah, that’s what I meant.”

Can you articulate, in a straightforward and clear manner, the “same” point you think you made in your last few posts? Because the point I’m getting is that you don’t place much importance on conveying information in an accurate and non-misleading manner.

And just for yuks, what piece of critical information is not reported in the news article you linked to?

ETA: the Provincetown article, but I believe it's missing from the local fox station's story as well.

[Jersey Girl]

Oh. Well it would appear that the hospital policy has changed regarding pediatric patients. It's weird because I was just in the hospital accompanying an adult patient, I forget, 3 weeks ago? I was allowed to go everywhere and I was also allowed to take off my mask in the room. And before that as well with adult patients, 2 other times. That's 2 adults, more than one surgery. Three different hospitals. Go figure. I would say that the pediatric policy must've recently changed on account of the surges in new cases re: Delta variant. I do worry about what that does to the pediatric patient who has to go it alone without their adult support system. But those were the exact policies that were in place during lock downs. Anyone who goes in, goes alone. Adult or child. No exceptions.

School policies haven't been published yet for the upcoming school year. I think it should be all masked or no masked at all. Regardless of vaccination. All or nothing on masks. I dislike Biden's suggestion to put up vaccination clinics at schools if those are going to pop up during school hours. “F” that. Don't do it.

Grocery stores locally have no masking policy in place. The CDC has just updated their recommendation suggesting indoor masking for everyone in large crowds or where social distancing isn't feasible. I go into the stores intermittently but I don't stay long. The stores where I live aren't crowded to start with and they really were.

In any case, I think we're headed back into lock down in early fall. Looks like Biden is now pissed off and bewildered by the vaccine hesitant. All I can say is join the club. The vaccine hesitant didn't happen overnight. It's not due to a single cause. It's multiple causes woven together over time.

I do think FDA approval would go at least part of the way to get more vaccinated. As of today at this very time, over 500 thousand people were vaccinated in the country today alone. I'll check that again later when the stats by state come in just to be sure. I think those might be people seeing the surges and scared shitless of the Delta variant, or simply not wanting to go back into lock downs again. The map that I watch is turning red all over again. It could just be people residing in places like CA whose hands are before forced to vaccinate on account of their employment.

Thank you.

So your assessment of Hospital policies are based on masking and social distancing. No other criteria, correct?
Your assessment of Schools and Stores are also based on masking or vaccination proof.
One is not better than the other because they are the same, right?

Would it be asking too much for you to actually read what I wrote?

For example: Your assessment of Schools and Stores are also based on masking or vaccination proof.

What utter horse crap. Nowhere in my comments did I address basing school policies on proof of vaccination.

Here are my actual words:

School policies haven't been published yet for the upcoming school year. I think it should be all masked or no masked at all. Regardless of vaccination. All or nothing on masks. I dislike Biden's suggestion to put up vaccination clinics at schools if those are going to pop up during school hours. “F” that. Don't do it.

[Gadianton]

Speaking of which, Res, if you or anyone has information on safety of Pfizer for people with asthma feel free to link.