A tribute to Grindael

[Jersey Girl]

Yeah, that's probably a safe play - Give the board a lecture about trolling using a guy that's not around anymore. Good stuff. Really good!

I offered why I thought Lem combined the two issues trolling and Grindael. It's a cautionary tale. Grindael spent the last year of his life alienated from this board after being driven away by a troll and discouragement with the lack of moderator response to the derails the troll caused.

[ceeboo]

Thank you, ceeboo. It is good to know you are out there. Maybe I should come to the forums where you are hanging out.

I would love to see you there but because I care about you and your loved ones, I need to make a few friendly suggestions should you decide to go where I have been hanging out. Bring a Hazmat suit - Wear two pairs of underwear - Have an emergency exit strategy - And breath through your nose.

Other than that, you should be fine (I think)

[Res Ipsa]

Yeah, that's probably a safe play - Give the board a lecture about trolling using a guy that's not around anymore. Good stuff. Really good!

I offered why I thought Lem combined the two issues trolling and Grindael. It's a cautionary tale. Grindael spent the last year of his life alienated from this board after being driven away by a troll and discouragement with the lack of moderator response to the derails the troll caused.

Ok, that doesn’t match the events as I recall them. Grindael left the board before I became a moderator. He later returned, and I believe he and I had a discussion last spring in at least one thread here.

He was also very busy with his blog and other writing projects the last couple years of his life, not to mention dealing with illness.

I think it does Grindael’s memory a great disservice to portray him this way. He was an extremely strong voice, who both dished it out and took. He could stand his ground and go toe to toe with anyone, usually running rings around them with his detailed historical knowledge.

Yes, at some point he became frustrated with MG and stopped posting here for a while. But to portray him as a victim unable to interact on a message board he loved is, in my opinion, not a tribute to a good man that we all miss.

[ceeboo]

I offered why I thought Lem combined the two issues trolling and Grindael. It's a cautionary tale. Grindael spent the last year of his life alienated from this board after being driven away by a troll and discouragement with the lack of moderator response to the derails the troll caused.

Ok, that doesn’t match the events as I recall them. Grindael left the board before I became a moderator. He later returned, and I believe he and I had a discussion last spring in at least one thread here.

He was also very busy with his blog and other writing projects the last couple years of his life, not to mention dealing with illness.

I think it does Grindael’s memory a great disservice to portray him this way. He was an extremely strong voice, who both dished it out and took. He could stand his ground and go toe to toe with anyone, usually running rings around them with his detailed historical knowledge.

Yes, at some point he became frustrated with MG and stopped posting here for a while. But to portray him as a victim unable to interact on a message board he loved is, in my opinion, not a tribute to a good man that we all miss.

Great post, RI.

[Jersey Girl]

I offered why I thought Lem combined the two issues trolling and Grindael. It's a cautionary tale. Grindael spent the last year of his life alienated from this board after being driven away by a troll and discouragement with the lack of moderator response to the derails the troll caused.

Ok, that doesn’t match the events as I recall them. Grindael left the board before I became a moderator. He later returned, and I believe he and I had a discussion last spring in at least one thread here.

He was also very busy with his blog and other writing projects the last couple years of his life, not to mention dealing with illness.

I think it does Grindael’s memory a great disservice to portray him this way. He was an extremely strong voice, who both dished it out and took. He could stand his ground and go toe to toe with anyone, usually running rings around them with his detailed historical knowledge.

Yes, at some point he became frustrated with MG and stopped posting here for a while. But to portray him as a victim unable to interact on a message board he loved is, in my opinion, not a tribute to a good man that we all miss.

If I am wrong with regard to the chronology I'm happy to admit it. I described the events as I recall them. If I am not mistaken,his exit post has been posted on this thread.

Edited out the nature of grindael's message.

[Lem]

But to portray him as a victim unable to interact on a message board he loved is, in my opinion, not a tribute to a good man that we all miss.

I didn’t define him as a victim, I said it was OUR loss he stopped posting here due to trolling. From the OP:

In my opinion, all we can do is ignore the trolls, and hope Shades’ actions don’t result in another friend of ours spending the last year of his life elsewhere.

It was our board that lost out, because troll voices outweighed and ultimately silenced other voices. Also from the OP:

Any legitimate, serious analysis of trolling would note that the two trolls are taking advantage of Shades’ “free speech” position, to the detriment of the board. ...The end result [of not dealing with this problem was] that we did not hear from our friend Grindael during the last year of his life.

[Jersey Girl]

Grindael:

Actions speak louder than words, ____. I might have a "pottymouth" but that's nothing on you. You're whining is fascinating. You will dish it out, but you can't take it. You play the passive-aggressive game like a pro. I don't ____ around with that ____. I just listened to Rachel Maddow play a Trump clip where he was talking about closing off the internet because some mysterious "they" were LOSING the battle. Like him, you lost but can’t accept it. All the control freaks in the world like LDS, Inc. can never get it back, and neither can Donald Trump. Like all the rest of the bigots in history he will be forgotten as a minor mistake as the United States shakes him and his ilk off and goes on being great. The US destroyed the twin relics of barbarism, like it was nothing. The US survived the Civil War and ENDED the slave trade. We have a ways to go, (cause there are still lots of bigots like your phony “Prophets” and “Apostles” out there) but we are getting there.

We don't need to be "great again". We already are. Your founding fathers hated the US. We STILL don't need the false morality and the hypocrisy or the ____ BYU "honor" code. Like the Mormon "Prophets" false prophecies about the destruction of the U.S. and the supremacy of Mormonism, that "prophecy" has been put to bed. Everything about Mormonism is built on a lie.

You're a ____ hypocrite, who, like Trump can't seem to control yourself when it comes to keeping your word or keeping yourself from the keyboard. But then, why should you when you’re an anonymous TROLL? Everything about you is made up. The phony platitudes just get old fast.

No one takes your faith away, you do that all by yourself. I have lots of conversations with Mormons who have NEVER whined about me like you do. What ____ difference does it make that I posted what I did? Why would you care if I were just “playing to the choir”? I’m so far above your comprehension that it must really bug you that you can’t figure me out. Thing is, I’ve explained all my reasons for what I do, and why I do it, on many threads. But you don’t know that, because you’re just a TROLL who is too lazy to really read AND COMPREHEND. You focus on minutia, and are only here to derail discussions. You can take your fake “regards” and shove them up your phony ass.

Funny how history repeats itself.

- Doc

Cam if you are still reading here, can you put a date on this for me, please?

ETA: No need. You posted another link that helps.

[Lem]

Excerpted from the conclusion of "The Art of Trolling,"

Why should someone... experience esthetic pleasure in triggering the outrage of an interlocutor through adopting preposterous and yet obnoxious stances? The ultimate answer might [be that] the only source of empowerment they can rely on is that of breaking the machine of conversation itself, exactly like a player who overthrows the chessboard because she or he is unable to escape checkmate or, with an even more appropriate metaphor, like the child who, not being able to understand how a toy works, breaks it into pieces.

Unfortunately, the toy that an increasing number of trolls are disquietingly seeking to destroy is not a minor one: it is public discourse.

Massimo Leone, 2018. “The art of trolling: Semiotic ingredients, sociocultural causes, pragmatic and political effects"

[Jersey Girl]

I am wading through my private messages on the now broken board. I can open some of them, not all because it looks like the messages were corrupted along with the board.

I have 4 pages left of incoming and 77 pages of sent in left in that message system. Sent messages are either my original sent messages or replies to incoming. I typically go through my messages periodically and delete them to clean the slate. Both of those message boxes were purged by me repeatedly. I'm guessing that I started to purge the inbox and stopped.

On the first examination, I will not identify the posters or the specific content, I'll describe what I see:

--Departure/goodbye messages from no less than 5 different posters who were complaining about ongoing board violations. One of those posters returned and had subsequent issues with board violations.

--There are messages from 2 posters sharing in real life about 2 different posters when I did and said exactly NOTHING to encourage that information.

What to conclude from the above?

1. At least 5 posters left the broken board due to of lack of response to moderation issues.
2. There are people here who apparently make it their business to dox and share in real life behind the scenes and who use such information to intimidate others.

All but one of the cases of posters who left on account of moderation issues, were addressing incidents that took place in the Terrestrial Forum of the now broken board.

[Res Ipsa]

Jersey Girl, the date on some of the material Doc posted leads me to think that Grindael left the board in late 2017. I think I was mod from spring 2018-summer 2019. I don’t think Grindael posted during that time. I don’t when he first posted again, as I was away from the board for several months. I specifically recall discussing something about Joseph Smith and fraud towards the beginning of the Nauvoo period after I came back from my board break. The most recent post of his in Terrestial that I could find was May 2020.

Memory sucks.