Time to Call It: "Witnesses" is a Box Office Flop

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Kishkumen
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Re: Time to Call It: "Witnesses" is a Box Office Flop

Post by Kishkumen »

Gadianton wrote:
Mon Aug 16, 2021 5:59 am
It was a vanity project, and in response to perceived slights. At my last family reunion I heard about Rod meldrum not farms. A witnesses film by Rod would do much better with Mormons. Even Kish's relatives didn't want to go. All the alleged good I've heard about it makes me want to see it less, because it sounds forced. A serious inquiry into why tbms weren't excited about it is in order but it won't be done, because the creators don't do criticism.
I think you have something there, Dean Robbers. Meldrum essentially gives LDS folk what they want—an uncomplicated affirmation that it’s all true. They are told that the reason apologetics are in trouble is very simple: the worldly eggheads at BYU with their PC, overly convoluted explanations that contradict the Book of Mormon text itself are on the wrong track.

That is the kind of “making the Book of Mormon true again” message the average suburban Mormon can latch onto. It’s an easy sell. In comparison with that, the more churlish, abrasive, and frankly unintelligible (to the average person) “apologetics” of the Interpreter crowd only attract enough people to replicate a highly self-selective group of Uber-nerds. You know, Young Smoot, essentially.

Interpreter is a branding nightmare, in short. And Witnesses is in some ways the result of all of that meandering noodle abuse. At the end, most people just turn to each other and ask, “What was that about?”

But I tend to think that the first and more serious problem was that the target audience simply was never interested. What does *that* tell you?
"I have learned with what evils tyranny infects a state. For it frustrates all the virtues, robs freedom of its lofty mood, and opens a school of fawning and terror, inasmuch as it leaves matters not to the wisdom of the laws, but to the angry whim of those who are in authority.”
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Re: Time to Call It: "Witnesses" is a Box Office Flop

Post by Philo Sofee »

The lack luster interest from members tells me that in looking to the leadership for all these decades, they also are not all that interested in the witnesses. Theirs is a more accomodationist view, we can't convert the world after all, so we need to join it. That is what the members have been seeing from the upper crust in Salt Lake City throughout our lifetimes. I suspect that is a large part of the reason why excitement for the movie just didn't occur.
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Re: Time to Call It: "Witnesses" is a Box Office Flop

Post by drumdude »

With so little enthusiasm and momentum, I would be very surprised if they make the “making-of” documentary about the film that DCP promised. What is the point if no one cared about the movie itself?
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Re: Time to Call It: "Witnesses" is a Box Office Flop

Post by Moksha »

Flop or success, Dr. Peterson has declared he will not accept 30 silver Onties for this project!
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Re: Time to Call It: "Witnesses" is a Box Office Flop

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drumdude wrote:
Mon Aug 16, 2021 1:23 pm
With so little enthusiasm and momentum, I would be very surprised if they make the “making-of” documentary about the film that DCP promised. What is the point if no one cared about the movie itself?
Damn I hope they do release that. It looked a lot more interesting than the movie itself in some ways.
"I have learned with what evils tyranny infects a state. For it frustrates all the virtues, robs freedom of its lofty mood, and opens a school of fawning and terror, inasmuch as it leaves matters not to the wisdom of the laws, but to the angry whim of those who are in authority.”
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Re: Time to Call It: "Witnesses" is a Box Office Flop

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Philo Sofee wrote:
Mon Aug 16, 2021 12:38 pm
The lack luster interest from members tells me that in looking to the leadership for all these decades, they also are not all that interested in the witnesses. Theirs is a more accomodationist view, we can't convert the world after all, so we need to join it. That is what the members have been seeing from the upper crust in Salt Lake City throughout our lifetimes. I suspect that is a large part of the reason why excitement for the movie just didn't occur.
Yes!

It may seem like a fairly mundane point, but there is no priesthood GA calling of "Witness" as there is Prophet, or Apostle. So, the first hurdle would be helping LDS moviegoers understand what the heck this is all about. "Witnesses"? To what, a crime? Is it a sequel to the 1985 Peter Weir movie, Witness, starring Harrison Ford, Kelly McGillis, and Danny Glover?

What is perhaps even worse is that the Witnesses are depicted as being sad sacks, for the most part. The kind of losers who end up as marginal curiosities or organizational has-beens. They exist for Joseph Smith and for little other reason than Joseph Smith. In a world of ambitious narcissists such as ours, they are the furthest from a model of success anyone would want to emulate. And, while I have to applaud the deeper values they represent, it is an absolute loser of a marketing strategy for a major film. Show me the witness who monetizes their relationship with Joseph Smith by TickTocking about the nitty-gritty salacious details, and I will show you success in our time. This is John Dehlin.
"I have learned with what evils tyranny infects a state. For it frustrates all the virtues, robs freedom of its lofty mood, and opens a school of fawning and terror, inasmuch as it leaves matters not to the wisdom of the laws, but to the angry whim of those who are in authority.”
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Re: Time to Call It: "Witnesses" is a Box Office Flop

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Perhaps there wasn't a ground swell for this movie because the faithful are all about the present instead of the past? There are so many problems with church history that maybe the faithful don't want to touch it any more? My brother was just released from the Stake Presidency where he lives and his response to troubling history is to avoid the issue. He doesn't want to hear it. He is a good guy. The church does good today so he tells himself. His fellow parishioners are good people too. He had numerous emotional experiences that he ties to church membership and so it must be true regardless of whether or not a certain leader couldn't keep his pants on and maybe bent the truth for good aims. So what about the past, he says. He is focusing on today and the future and so the witness story is meaningless to him.

I didn't ask him about it when spoke to him two weeks ago, but I doubt he saw the movie as he probably would have told me about it. Incidentally, he is a big Givens fan.
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Re: Time to Call It: "Witnesses" is a Box Office Flop

Post by Paloma »

Do you think part of the reason the general LDS population have been largely disinterested in this movie is that it's too much like everyday church fare, whether sacrament service or Gospel Doctrine and Sunday school class, or even seminary classes?

That doesn't necessarily mean that people are unfaithful to the Gospel but perhaps just that when they're contemplating spending free time and money at the movie theatre, they want a break from real life activities and obligations?

When we were (non-LDS) missionaries in a relatively undeveloped African country, we'd sometimes enjoy vacations in South Africa where we had untold opportunities foreign to our daily experience in the African bush where we lived. While we'd sometimes stay at missionary Guesthouses because of the low cost, we never opted to attend all the chapels and prayer meetings onsite. Not that we didn't care about our faith, but we needed a break from our everyday lives that included daily and weekly Christian gatherings and ministry activities.

For those of you who were LDS missionaries ... what did you like to do on P-day??? Maybe some like young Smoot would relish opportunities for more exposure to and study of Gospel things. But the majority???

This is just one anecdote, but after we'd returned from Africa and during a cruise vacation in the Caribbean, I met a couple who were from Utah. I asked if they were LDS, and they responded they were but made it very clear they had no interest in talking about anything church related (I was gung-ho on learning more about Mormonism at that point). And it was evident they weren't wearing garments during their holiday. I feel badly now about even asking them about their faith and I wouldn't "go there" now. I think I picked up on their avoidant vibes quickly, and left it alone!

I was surprised to see the apparent lack of interest in the Witnesses movie on the MD&D board, and still wonder about that. It seems that people there are interested in discussing Mormonism. Why they showed so little interest in seeing Witnesses is a mystery to me. Maybe some of you have some insight into that.
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Re: Time to Call It: "Witnesses" is a Box Office Flop

Post by Equality »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Mon Aug 16, 2021 1:34 am
Everybody Wang Chung wrote:
Mon Aug 16, 2021 1:28 am


Despite the numerous similarities in plot, themes and characters between Added Upon and Saturday’s Warrior, DCP would have to pay film rights if he were to do a film adaptation of Saturday’s Warriors. But, Added Upon which is about 100 years old, is in the public domain.

So, yes pretty much Saturday’s Warrior, but it would be called Added Upon.
You know, if he can get the Wachowski brothers to produce and direct it, I’m in.

- Doc
The Wachowski sisters, you mean?
https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-53692435
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Re: Time to Call It: "Witnesses" is a Box Office Flop

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

Equality wrote:
Mon Aug 16, 2021 4:40 pm
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Mon Aug 16, 2021 1:34 am


You know, if he can get the Wachowski brothers to produce and direct it, I’m in.

- Doc
The Wachowski sisters, you mean?
https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-53692435
Huh. Look at that. Welp. There you go.

- Doc
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