Should we bring back a moderator team?

[Atlanticmike]

I have been thinking more about "trolling" in general, So I decided to do a simple Google search. One of the places it sent me to had the following to say about trolling (This is only a part of the link's contents)


Signs of Trolling:

It can sometimes become difficult to tell the difference between a troll and someone who just genuinely wants to argue about a topic. However, here are a few tell-tale signs that someone is actively trolling.

Off-topic remarks: Completely going off-topic from the subject at hand. This is done to annoy and disrupt other posters.

Refusal to acknowledge evidence: Even when presented with hard, cold facts, they ignore this and pretend like they never saw it.

Dismissive, condescending tone: An early indicator of a troll was that they would ask an angry responder, “Why you mad, bro?” This is a method done to provoke someone even more, as a way of dismissing their argument altogether.

Use of unrelated images or memes: They reply to others with memes, images, and gifs. This is especially true if done in response to a very long text post.

Seeming obliviousness: They seem oblivious that most people are in disagreement with them. Also, trolls rarely get mad or provoked.
=============================================================================================================================


So considering that I have fairly frequently partaken in at least the two I have put in blue - I guess I am a troll. Actually, as I consider all of these, I think we have a lot more trolls around here than one might imagine.

Great post ceeboo!! The first day I found this board I realized it was full of trolls. Infact, I actually misjudged what was actually going on in spirit paradise. I think the first thread I started in spirit paradise was called "hatred for Mormons" where I asked why so many people here hated Mormons. But once I kept reading threads, I started to realize the hatred was for anyone with a different political view contrary to a handful of posters who kinda took over spirit paradise and claimed it as their own territory. I couldn't help but feel like 5or6 posters got together and decided to hire the military guy, Doc Cam, to guard spirit paradise by throwing as many personal insults he could at any poster who dared to step out of line and stray from agreeing with their political view. Actually ceeboo, when you came back and started posting I really appreciated your views, you are a really good person, I could tell in the you post. So when Doc Cam trolled your thread titled "cute baby watch thread" he helped me realize that there is absolutely no hope in getting through to him, or the other trolls that have claimed spirit paradise as their little corner of the internet. I mean, his very first post on your cute baby thread was to accuse you of getting ready to have a meltdown and of being manic. Then he kept trolling the thread just to piss you off because you wouldn't answer his question. Thread after thread after thread, Doc Cam shows everyone how much he despises and hates anyone who doesn't hold his hard left political views. Another poster, I think it was Dr. Exiled, started posting there about 5 month ago and once Doc Cam figured out Dr exiled wasn't as far left as he was, he tried to paint the Dr as a "trumpster". Typical for Doc Cam!! Everything he does in the spirit paradise is geared toward painting certain posters as right wing fanatics so they have to DEFEND themselves against his ACCUSATIONS, instead of being able to get their point of view across freely.

[ceeboo]

Hey A-Mike

Glad to see you posting again - I was fairly concerned that you were banned from the board but when I found out that you were just put in a temporary "time out" - I was both pleased and relieved (For what it's worth, I think the "time out" handed down to you was a reasonable and appropriate action)

Great post ceeboo!!

Thanks, I post a "great post" about 2 times a year - so you will be waiting a long time before you see another one.

So when Doc Cam trolled your thread titled "cute baby watch thread"

Yeah, that was weird - but to be fair, I think there are many trolls amongst us, including Cam and Ceeboo (if we go by what I posted upthread) - In addition, as it relates to Cam (and to be fair to Cam), I have seen him post some deeply thought provoking and brilliant board contributions as well. In my opinion, he is a mixed bag - No doubt about it.

So, while much of the recent trolling discussion has centered around you and Cultellus, I think the discussion really needs to be much broader and it needs to include many more board members in said discussion (If the true intent of the discussions are really what is being claimed). Lastly, If this community is really wanting to have an honest discussion and get serious about the trolling on this board, we really need to recognize that this trolling we are speaking about has been happening way before you and Cultellus ever made your entrances on this board. Long before! To be honest, I am not convinced that the recent demands to stop the trolling/spamming is an honest and transparent exercise, rather, I think it is 100% about two specific posters that have recently joined this community. And only two.

[malkie]

I have been thinking more about "trolling" in general, So I decided to do a simple Google search. One of the places it sent me to had the following to say about trolling (This is only a part of the link's contents)


Signs of Trolling:

It can sometimes become difficult to tell the difference between a troll and someone who just genuinely wants to argue about a topic. However, here are a few tell-tale signs that someone is actively trolling.

Off-topic remarks: Completely going off-topic from the subject at hand. This is done to annoy and disrupt other posters.

Refusal to acknowledge evidence: Even when presented with hard, cold facts, they ignore this and pretend like they never saw it.

Dismissive, condescending tone: An early indicator of a troll was that they would ask an angry responder, “Why you mad, bro?” This is a method done to provoke someone even more, as a way of dismissing their argument altogether.

Use of unrelated images or memes: They reply to others with memes, images, and gifs. This is especially true if done in response to a very long text post.

Seeming obliviousness: They seem oblivious that most people are in disagreement with them. Also, trolls rarely get mad or provoked.
=============================================================================================================================


So considering that I have fairly frequently partaken in at least the two I have put in blue - I guess I am a troll. Actually, as I consider all of these, I think we have a lot more trolls around here than one might imagine.

Hmmmmm - my own observation on "off-topic" stuff is that it is usually fairly easy to determine whether the intent is to annoy, disrupt, and dismiss, or to poke a little fun at someone, or provoke thought, rather than anger.

Of course, it's difficult to determine intent without mind-reading skills, but I've generally seen the off-topic comments of both you and, for example, Moshka, as falling on the fun/thought side, rather than the annoy/disrupt side.

[ceeboo]

Hey Malkie!

Of course, it's difficult to determine intent without mind-reading skills, but I've generally seen the off-topic comments of both you and, for example, Moshka, as falling on the fun/thought side, rather than the annoy/disrupt side.

I would agree with you that when I (or Mok) post off topic, it is almost always in an effort to provide a little fun or playful banter - But, my understanding from what I posted above, that is still trolling. So?

[malkie]

Hey Malkie!

Of course, it's difficult to determine intent without mind-reading skills, but I've generally seen the off-topic comments of both you and, for example, Moshka, as falling on the fun/thought side, rather than the annoy/disrupt side.

I would agree with you that when I (or Mok) post off topic, it is almost always in an effort to provide a little fun or playful banter - But, my understanding from what I posted above, that is still trolling. So?

I would say "no", specifically based on perceived intent.

My feeling about many of your "off topic" comments (ones that are not purely jocular) has been that you are trying to defuse the situation rather than inflame it. I've seen you largely as a peacemaker.

You can tell me if I'm wrong, but I don't think so, based on observing your interactions over a fairly long period of time on the old MormonDiscussions board.

Also, of course, other posters may see things differently - but, again, I don't think so.

[malkie]

I'm currently multi-tasking between making breakfast, and commenting here, which is my excuse for not mentioning what I believe is another relevant aspect of the Cee/Mok axis comments: they are (again, generally) asides, not derails.

[ceeboo]

My feeling about many of your "off topic" comments (ones that are not purely jocular) has been that you are trying to defuse the situation rather than inflame it. I've seen you largely as a peacemaker.

You can tell me if I'm wrong, but I don't think so, based on observing your interactions over a fairly long period of time on the old MormonDiscussions board.

First, let me be clear - I am still thinking all of this through and I have come to no conclusions because I think this whole trolling thing is really complex and it has many layers.

Having said that, I'm not sure if intent (no matter what the intent is) matters. If I post something in a thread that's off-topic, it's off-topic. Full stop. And I have done that many times - So have others. Now, these off topic posts rarely bother me (many times I enjoy them and find them to be examples of people's wit and humor - but what if they do bother other people and/or other people don't enjoy them or find them humorous?)

Again, I am still thinking all of this trolling stuff through and I am not sure what lines to draw or if they should be drawn at all. From my view, if the lines are drawn too straight and tight, there is a very real risk of placing handcuffs on people that will limit them in sharing their gifts and/or expressing their exceptional wit, humor and banter in the community - and that, in my opinion, would be a real loss for everyone.

[Atlanticmike]

My feeling about many of your "off topic" comments (ones that are not purely jocular) has been that you are trying to defuse the situation rather than inflame it. I've seen you largely as a peacemaker.

You can tell me if I'm wrong, but I don't think so, based on observing your interactions over a fairly long period of time on the old MormonDiscussions board.

First, let me be clear - I am still thinking all of this through and I have come to no conclusions because I think this whole trolling thing is really complex and it has many layers.

Having said that, I'm not sure if intent (no matter what the intent is) matters. If I post something in a thread that's off-topic, it's off-topic. Full stop. And I have done that many times - So have others. Now, these off topic posts rarely bother me (many times I enjoy them and find them to be examples of people's wit and humor - but what if they do bother other people and/or other people don't enjoy them or find them humorous?)

Again, I am still thinking all of this trolling stuff through and I am not sure what lines to draw or if they should be drawn at all. From my view, if the lines are drawn too straight and tight, there is a very real risk of placing handcuffs on people that will limit them in sharing their gifts and/or expressing their exceptional wit, humor and banter in the community - and that, in my opinion, would be a real loss for everyone.

Very well said ceeboo. I just want to say that I personally don't mind how this board is set up except for the fact that people are just sitting back and allowing certain posters to paint fellow board members as Nazis, White supremacist and just being down right mean. As a Mormon, it doesn't bother me at all that this board brings up just about all of Mormonisms deepest darkest secrets. I love reading the terrestrial forum. I've learned a lot. So Shades, if you're reading this, all I want is for posters to be able to speak their mind without being insulted personally. Everything else is fine with me.

[malkie]

My feeling about many of your "off topic" comments (ones that are not purely jocular) has been that you are trying to defuse the situation rather than inflame it. I've seen you largely as a peacemaker.

You can tell me if I'm wrong, but I don't think so, based on observing your interactions over a fairly long period of time on the old MormonDiscussions board.

First, let me be clear - I am still thinking all of this through and I have come to no conclusions because I think this whole trolling thing is really complex and it has many layers.

Having said that, I'm not sure if intent (no matter what the intent is) matters. If I post something in a thread that's off-topic, it's off-topic. Full stop. And I have done that many times - So have others. Now, these off topic posts rarely bother me (many times I enjoy them and find them to be examples of people's wit and humor - but what if they do bother other people and/or other people don't enjoy them or find them humorous?)

Again, I am still thinking all of this trolling stuff through and I am not sure what lines to draw or if they should be drawn at all. From my view, if the lines are drawn too straight and tight, there is a very real risk of placing handcuffs on people that will limit them in sharing their gifts and/or expressing their exceptional wit, humor and banter in the community - and that, in my opinion, would be a real loss for everyone.

I can find nothing to disagree with there - in fact, I wonder if I should retract (at least partially) my views on intent. Perhaps focusing on effect makes more sense.

There's a timing issue involved, of course, in that a mod who is looking at effect rather than anything else might not be inclined to nip in the bud an apparent attempt to derail, because perhaps nobody will rise to the bait, and so it becomes moot. This, however, may embolden the would-be disrupter.

I definitely agree with your last para - and this thought is part of what makes moderation an art rather than a science, or, if you like, a Pacific whale rather than a rabble-rousing raccoon.

[ceeboo]

So Shades, if you're reading this, all I want is for posters to be able to speak their mind without being insulted personally. Everything else is fine with me.

Then you should be pleased to know that Shades is 100% committed to providing a board where any and all voices have a place to be heard. Shades places an enormous value on free speech (with very few but necessary boundaries in place) and he has consistently held firm to this position for many years now - even against some pushback and challenges in thee past. I not only appreciate him for that, I respect him for that.

This is probably the number one reason that I post on this board - and only on this board.