Vaccines and Therapeutics 2.0 & 3.0 Merge

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

antivaxxer gets covid, is pissed doctors triage and place her behind people who took the vaccine.

https://www.reddit.com/r/HermanCainAwar ... azon%20SES







Why are they like this?

- Doc

[Jersey Girl]

Cam there's other reports like that. So far as I can tell, docs are well within their rights to refuse to treat and triage unvaccinated patients out of their facilities. These people who are complaining don't know jack about triage. But I wouldn't expect them to since it doesn't seem that they bothered to investigate vaccines using reputable sources to begin with as most of us here have done. Hell, I read whatever I could get my hands on because I thought my life depended on it. They refused vaccines, they are being faced with refusal or delayed treatment, and NOW they're bitching? We're well over a year out on this thing.

Alabama doctor pledges to stop treating unvaccinated patients
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/al ... s-n1277316

A Florida doctor said she'd stop treating most unvaccinated patients in person but denied violating the Hippocratic Oath, report sayshttps://www.businessinsider.com/florida-doctor- ... ice-2021-9

Some legal stuff...

A primary care physician can refuse treatment to unvaccinated patients
https://www.thv11.com/article/news/veri ... 52e94bf6ee

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

Cam there's other reports like that. So far as I can tell, docs are well within their rights to refuse to treat and triage unvaccinated patients out of their facilities. These people who are complaining don't know jack about triage. But I wouldn't expect them to since it doesn't seem that they bothered to investigate vaccines using reputable sources to begin with as most of us here have done. Hell, I read whatever I could get my hands on because I thought my life depended on it. They refused vaccines, they are being faced with refusal or delayed treatment, and NOW they're bitching? We're well over a year out on this thing.

Alabama doctor pledges to stop treating unvaccinated patients
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/al ... s-n1277316

A Florida doctor said she'd stop treating most unvaccinated patients in person but denied violating the Hippocratic Oath, report sayshttps://www.businessinsider.com/florida-doctor- ... ice-2021-9

Some legal stuff...

A primary care physician can refuse treatment to unvaccinated patients
https://www.thv11.com/article/news/veri ... 52e94bf6ee

The life cycle of the Covid-19 antivaxxer:

Stage 1 - Antivaxxer makes unsubstantiated claim about health. Antivaxxer community eats it up and immediately posts claims across social media. They like to “drop knowledge” on the sheeple.

Stage 2 - People call out the BS and the antivaxxers start posting all sorts of links that usually lead back to one biased and unreliable “paper”.

Stage 3 - Actual experts step in and show how antivaxxers’ claims are nonsense

Stage 4 - Antivaxxers get sick and double down with home remedies. Posts their ‘journey’ across social media.

- Doc

[Jersey Girl]

Yep! Grown ass adults who didn't bother to inform themselves. I don't know how to be sensitive to people who have no intellectual curiosity even when their very LIFE depends on it. If you aren't motivated by that, I mean...what can anyone do for you?

[Res Ipsa]

antivaxxer gets covid, is pissed doctors triage and place her behind people who took the vaccine.

https://www.reddit.com/r/HermanCainAwar ... azon%20SES







Why are they like this?

- Doc

I don’t know. People have been told over and over and over the importance of taking measures to prevent hospital overruns. We saw what hospital overruns looked like early in the pandemic in several countries. We all saw counties that were forced to implement triage, which at that time meant treating the young and leaving the old to die.

I read a post by an EMT with wilderness certification. Part of their training involves exercises where they come upon a group in the wilderness with a variety of casualties. And the exercises are designed to force the EMT to have to decide who to treat and who to let die. My son received his certification for wilderness first aid, and had to complete a similar exercise. It was gut wrenching to listen to.

This EMT described two tiers of triage. The first is when there are sufficient resources available to treat everyone, and the person doing triage just has to determine the order in which people are treated. The second is when there are not sufficient resources. It involves determining who has the best chance of survival using the least resources.

In a hospital with an overrun ICU, The unvaccinated that need intubation are going to be in the do not treat category. They consume a tremendous amount of resources, with a relatively low chance of survival.

I read a bunch of posts by vaccine refusers who said that if they got COVID, they’d just go get monoclonal antibody treatments. The same people refused to take any steps to avoid hospital overruns.

Now they expect the health care system to bail them out with a relatively scarce and extremely expensive treatment that they could avoided with two free vaccinations. They also don’t probably know that after vaccines became available, medical insurers began withdrawing their COVID waivers, which were voluntary and provided 100% COVID coverage. When they can’t afford to pay, the rest of will have to pick up the check in the form of increased health care costs.

It’s tragic that so many people are choosing to learn the hard way that there are consequences for irresponsible behavior. It’s also tragic that there is no vaccine that protects against the deadly combination of ignorance and propaganda.

[Jersey Girl]

The first is when there are sufficient resources available to treat everyone, and the person doing triage just has to determine the order in which people are treated. The second is when there are not sufficient resources. It involves determining who has the best chance of survival using the least resources.

That. That is triage. Period.

I wish I knew if one of the problems is that people don't know how the medical community really works or they simply lack common sense and the ability to put two and two together. It's really alarming when you think about it. They also don't know what the mission of various government and health agencies are.

In a world where we have online search capability there's just no excuse for such laziness and keep in mind that we see their comments online--you know like the devices in their hands or under their finger tips.

I mean, come ON already.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

… I wish I knew if one of the problems is that people don't know how the medical community really works …

Man, most people, myself included, don’t know much about how anything works. Go ahead. Ask me to explain a homeowner’s or renter’s insurance policy, how to determine if a claim can be made, and who to call if I figure that out. I can’t do it off memory. And I think that’s the crux of the issue. We all have a limited amount of brain space with varying degrees of success in using it.

BUT. The difference between them and I is I actually carry a policy and have read it. I know where it is. And I’ll reference it if I’m curious about it for some reason. That’s analogous to this vaccine and my efforts to understand it. Their research is generally limited to memes, echo chambers, and a liar screaming at them from Fox or YouTube.

So, I guess it really boils down to reading and researching legitimate sources. That, right there, eliminates 90% of the right-wing from being informed.

- Doc

[Dr Exiled]

I don't think it helps having Rolling Stone do questionable journalism on ivermectin: https://reason.com/2021/09/06/ivermecti ... tone-hoax/

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/p ... d-1220608/

It'll give fuel to the case.

[Jersey Girl]

… I wish I knew if one of the problems is that people don't know how the medical community really works …

Man, most people, myself included, don’t know much about how anything works. Go ahead. Ask me to explain a homeowner’s or renter’s insurance policy, how to determine if a claim can be made, and who to call if I figure that out. I can’t do it off memory. And I think that’s the crux of the issue. We all have a limited amount of brain space with varying degrees of success in using it.

BUT. The difference between them and I is I actually carry a policy and have read it. I know where it is. And I’ll reference it if I’m curious about it for some reason. That’s analogous to this vaccine and my efforts to understand it. Their research is generally limited to memes, echo chambers, and a liar screaming at them from Fox or YouTube.

So, I guess it really boils down to reading and researching legitimate sources. That, right there, eliminates 90% of the right-wing from being informed.

- Doc

Yeah but. Yeah but here is one thing. If you've ever gone to an ER/ED you know good and well that there are patients called before you who arrived after you. On some level you have to know, even if you don't know the term triage, that they are tending first to the cases that are worse than yours are. So that is something right there. I mean, you can see that they prioritize even if you don't fully understand HOW they are prioritizing.

How do people not understand the concept of scarce resources? Did they not hoard toilet paper and see empty shelves in the beginning of this pandemic? During natural disasters where people load up on water and staple items? Are there people who haven't had or seen that experience in this country?

And hey, with the homeowners/renters insurance, you can always call your agent in a pinch and they'll look up your policy for you. Lazy way out, but it's definitely going to lead to answers.

But you make a solid point that you know where your resource is if you need it. I attribute much of what we're seeing to the fact that people rely on social media as their resource. Like they can't even discern between garbage and reputable sources.

I think I am reasonably intelligent, certainly resourceful, and even I made myself understand the virus and vaccines, though I did study pandemic/endemics in my education. Even if you don't understand what a pandemic is...for freak's sake you can google the definition!

[Moksha]

Due to a lack of any new coronavirus cases, life in China is back to normal and people are traveling again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QI_7ggMG8pE