anti-christ discussion, from middle p. 3 to end.

[Moksha]

My personal favorite of those DCP stories is the one where he said one of his kids had a piece of meat or something like that stuck in their throat, and DCP said a prayer or gave the kid a blessing, and *POOF*! The meat was dislodged!

Most parents would have chosen the immediacy of the Heimlich Maneuver. It would have taken a lot of faith to make such a gamble.

Did Gemli have a response?

[Philo Sofee]

Honorentheos
Christ as savior is an enemy to humanity. Don't like reading that? Consider how few human beings have lived in cultural settings that fit under the christian label. Consider that conversion to Christianity is an act of violence to ones culture and demands abandoning ones father, brothers mother and sister if needs be. I am anti Christ. I am pro humanity. I honor the god within myself. Within you. Within us all.

Beautifully articulated... I can't find anything here to disagree with. The fascinating thing is the Christ ethos, the Christ Principle in Esoteric Christianity is exactly this. It is a segment of the people who long for this kind of Christ, this war ethic, this literal Christ. The spiritually "enlightened" have not taught this cultural construct, but a vast more engaged Christ within humanity. I mean, the more I look the more diversified I find this fascinating warped paganism with all sorts of themes, ideas, and ideals that are quite different, and wonderful to explore. But what you posted? Gonged me like a great tolling bell, every bit as much as Ralph Waldo Emerson and Emily Dickinson's poetry. Thanks for sharing.

Once again, the Book of Mormon simplifies the anti-Christ/pro Christ issue beyond all reality in actual historic Christianity where there have been dozens of fractions of ways of understanding, worshipping, and believing in Christ. There never has been a single, dry way of grasping this incredibly difficult and sometimes weird theme. The Book of Mormon is a kindergarten response to a very adult and important issue.

[dastardly stem]

I think I’m anti-Christ. At least ideologically. I have no idea if I would’ve liked the person based off the mythology - probably not, if I’m being honest. I can’t think of many preachers that tickle my cockles. But, yeah. My anti-Christ reasons follow:

- Not a huge fan of a god having a chosen people, be it a Jew, a Christian, or a Nu Mason. Seems kind of petty, and the chosen people tend to be terrible. What was that Old Testament story where the Jews circumcised another tribe and then killed them while their dicks were healing? Always with the massacres those chosen peoples... I’m against that.

- And then the Jewish god had sex with Mary while she was asleep, or not, or whatever. Seems kind of a rapey way to come into the world. I’m against that.

- And then Jesus never had good theodicy. He was all, “Dad needs me to die to make up for all the evil we created and allowed to propagate. If this patch 2.1 easypeasy.exe doesn’t work I’ll just come back and reboot this crap.” I’m against that.

- But what about Jesus’ love for everyone? I dunno. Seems like dude’s love, whatever that means, is kind of manipulative and abusive. You don’t kiss his ass, well he loves you so much he made this place where you can go because you didn’t love him or ask for forgiveness for being you. I’m against that. I mean look at Midgley. If there ever were a truer disciple take my eyes because I don’t wanna see it.

- Ok. But Jesus has a church now headed up by men - definitely not women. And they have so much money for... making more money for... I dunno, the millennium or whatever. What about housing them bums and schizoids? Jesus say no? *snap* Yeah, dawg, I’m against, too.

- Ok, but what about cool new Jesus who doesn’t give crap about your facemasks, loves to beat the beat up, and adores those Molly Mo’s who bump and grind mere inches away from yo’ dick? Drop a hot take in the TiTS youtube comments section and click dislike because I’m against that.

- Doc

Couldn't agree more. I don't mind accepting the name anti-Christ on similar grounds, if people are intent on labeling it. I admit my intent on pressing MG is to call out the divisiveness. Enemy-creating seems like to a stupid thing for Jesus to have done--but apparently he had to create enemies otherwise he wouldn't be able to appease God by having people persecute and kill him....or whatever. Though as legend has it, he taught his followers to embrace the notion of hating others, even those who love you, and creating enemies.

[dastardly stem]

gemli DanielPeterson a day ago

If I lecture you at all (and I haven't received the check, by the way) it's to say the answer will never be a deity or any other "being," any more than water boils because the devil is taking a bath.

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeters ... 5190851138

I love it. What a clever fellow he is. It seems to me God did an epic fail every time he interacted with his people. I wouldn't doubt at all if someone stumbled upon hot springs saw people die who thought taking a warm dip was a good idea and thought it was the devil who did it. God ain't the only one filling the gaps in our knowledge.

[dastardly stem]

The Christ-myth posits that humanity needs a savior. This originated out of a tribal religious community that viewed itself as God's chosen struggling with prolonged periods of subjugation to more powerful states with what they viewed to be hedonistic and pagan religious beliefs. The Christ-myth arose out of the need to blame self and others for this captivity by lesser peoples. It's never been based on reality or interested in facts. It rejects the idea there truly is a season for everything and instead dreams of perpetual spring for the chosen and winter for everyone else.

The belief that this being would be a literal conqueror who was God's champion is baked into the concept. It doesn't matter that modern Christians believe humanity needs saved from vice and sin rather than kings and armies. Why? Because they define being human as vicious and fallen and maintained that to be a savior Christ must be a conqueror.

So Christ is at war with humanity and those who believe this myth foresee a day when every knee will bow to him and every tongue confess him their Lord. And why? Because they need saved from being a human being, part of this universe as it exists, for loving and living too much, for being willing to say I don't know rather than I believe. For appreciating the fact life is a mystery but against all odds we get to live it.

Christ as savior is an enemy to humanity. Don't like reading that? Consider how few human beings have lived in cultural settings that fit under the christian label. Consider that conversion to Christianity is an act of violence to ones culture and demands abandoning ones father, brothers mother and sister if needs be. I am anti Christ. I am pro humanity. I honor the god within myself. Within you. Within us all.

I cheer on this type of thinking....gladly. Thanks.

[Moksha]

My version of Christianity doesn't fit in the dysfunctional boxes many of you have been checking. You do know that Christianity comes in many variations, right?

[dastardly stem]

My version of Christianity doesn't fit in the dysfunctional boxes many of you have been checking. You do know that Christianity comes in many variations, right?

Feeling shy...sometimes I can't tell if you're making an astute observation in a comical way or not. I mean mostly I get your point and get some good chuckles in the process, but I do believe they've passed on by me a few times due to my own ignorance and what not.

Anyway, I'd say the variations and how extreme those variations have been is part of the problem rather than a virtue, it seems to me. We've seen murdering and maiming and we've seen loving and caring. I'm all for the loving and caring, but while that caring is happening one must wonder what Jesus meant when he says he never knew many of his followers. Or what Jesus means when he took the ghost out of people who disagree with his prophets and prophetesses. Once that wondering turns back to murdering and maiming to appease the unknowable sage...well that's when I question the usefulness of that which tentatively delights.

[Moksha]

Stem, picture a Christianity that does indeed embrace the love of Jesus but also functions in a rational manner eschewing any nuttiness and unnecessary superstition.

[honorentheos]

My version of Christianity doesn't fit in the dysfunctional boxes many of you have been checking. You do know that Christianity comes in many variations, right?

The impulse is to see those who think differently as needing saved from rather than nourished within the variety and humanity of who they are culturally and individually. The comments still found nerve endings to illicit the negative response, so I don't believe there is as much distance as you might imagine.

I don't believe the concept of Christianity allows sufficient distance from the origins to avoid the fundamental nature of the Christ as savior problem. Good people who don't share ones beliefs aren't sufficiently whole, and perfection comes once they are assimilated.

It doesn't matter to me, really. I've made my peace with it. It just seemed like the thread might benefit from an anti Christ perspective to inform the discussion. Christ as concept originated out of a negative place to appease a problem that the Book of Job apparently wasn't able to in its original form. It's an expression of ego, and is vindicated through conquest.

[Moksha]

Good people who don't share one's beliefs aren't sufficiently whole, and perfection comes once they are assimilated.

Sounds a bit like the Borgians for Christ sect.