DiscussMormonism.com

It’s fine, msnobody. I don’t want you to expend that kind of energy on a smallish point with regard to whether or not the Jewish god is capable of lying. Deceit, lying, ruse, and everything in between was necessarily baked into all cultures out of self-preservation and it’s no wonder those attributes were reflected in their deities. I don’t begrudge it, but I also don’t want to pretend it wasn’t the case.

- Doc

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 05, 2022 12:33 pm

It’s fine, msnobody. I don’t want you to expend that kind of energy on a smallish point with regard to whether or not the Jewish god is capable of lying. Deceit, lying, ruse, and everything in between was necessarily baked into all cultures out of self-preservation and it’s no wonder those attributes were reflected in their deities. I don’t begrudge it, but I also don’t want to pretend it wasn’t the case.

- Doc

Thanks, Doc. I don’t want to expend the energy either. I will say this. I’ve completed reading Michael Heiser’s book The Unseen Realm which talks about some more obscure biblical passages and discusses the ancient near eastern culture and thought at the time of biblical writers. His book has helped me better understand why there is evil in the world, free will of the created, and where God is going with all of this. Other more obscure passages make so much more sense to me now. He talks about many of the topics we discuss here.

Rivendale wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 04, 2022 7:14 pm

I thought he just quit being god if he lied.

Like, "I'm issuing a 'no-lying by administrative fiat order', and I'm resigning once an omnipotent but elusive replacement can be found."

IHAQ wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 03, 2022 3:51 pm

IHAQ wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 02, 2022 9:15 am

If the 15 old guys in SLC were making things up as they went along, trying to appear inspired but not being. In what way would the delivery of those 15 old guys be any different than what we see before our very eyes?

Bumping for Kevin

IHAQ, I have no idea what the difference would be. And therefore what?

drumdude wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 31, 2022 3:25 pm

It’s just too emotionally painful for most Mormons to discuss their religion critically, after decades of indoctrination to stay away from anything “anti” lest their fragile little faith be damaged.

Drumdude, do you think that my faith is fragile?

Physics Guy wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 31, 2022 3:44 pm

If you believe that God would ever give authoritative guidance to an earthly religious institution as such, then you're going to believe that God inspires your own institution, not some other one. If you believe in popes, you generally believe in the Pope.

Physics Guy, there might be a tendency for each person to believe God inspires her/his own institution. How does that imply I was compelled by that tendency?

huckelberry wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 01, 2022 11:35 pm

I do not think God gives people special messages. How would the person know if it was from God and had value or not?

Huckelberry, do you think God is incapable of giving someone a message that someone can recognize as having come from God?

drumdude wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 02, 2022 3:43 am

KevinSim wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 02, 2022 3:21 am

If Latter-day Saints are deceived, then there is no way to find anything out about God.

That’s a pretty bold claim…

The boldness of a claim doesn't always make it false.

huckelberry wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 02, 2022 4:55 am

KevinSim wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 02, 2022 3:21 am

I can't speak for David Bednar, but I wonder if he would agree with me that the critical difference is just what one has faith in. Biblical Christians believe the Bible tells the truth about God. Latter-day Saints believe God loves us, and wants us to know about Her/Him. If Biblical Christians are deceived, then there still might be some other ways to find out about God. If Latter-day Saints are deceived, then there is no way to find anything out about God.

kevin, why are you talking about deception?

Rivendale quoted David Bednar talking about deception; I was simply responding to that.

huckelberry wrote:In what way do you see traditional Christians as deceived?

I don't know what Bednar was referring to when he said Biblical Christians are deceived. Perhaps he meant they're deceived into believing the Bible is the only thing they need to find out about God.

huckelberry wrote:I thought LDS view was that traditional Christians had human errors and limited information but more importantly do not have primary authority.

All true statements.

IHAQ wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 02, 2022 9:15 am

That is such an arrogant (or childishly naiive) and close-minded view on faith and deity it beggars belief.

IHAQ, arrogant and naïve people (if I am one) can still make true statements from time to time.

IHAQ wrote:"God" comes in many forms for many different people, it's time for you to look beyond the end of your own nose Kevin...

I've been looking beyond the end of my nose for a long time, IHAQ. Have you encountered a version of deity that makes more sense than a deity that answers questions, like the Latter-day Saint missionaries describe? If so, please tell me about said deity.

IHAQ wrote:Relying on what the LDS Church tells you is, well, unreliable.

What does unreliable even mean? I don't actually care about how reliable the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints' teachings are; all I care about is whether or not God has chosen the leaders of that church to speak for Her/Him.