Muslims and peace...

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_dartagnan
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Post by _dartagnan »

"...if things do not change, they are on that path." "THINGS"???? What "things" do you suggest?


Well, first and foremost is the breeding factor. Muslims everywhere tend to outbreed the rest of us, and for some weird reason or another Europe´s birthrate is dropping way below the global average. It isn´t even breeding at a rate to keep its numbers even since more people die than are born every year. Muslims typically breed at a rate anywhere from twice to six times the global average. That is outrageous given the fact that the majorit of them come from impoverished societies.

From a legal standpoint there really isn't anything we can do about this. If things stay the same, mathematically speaking it is inevitable Muslims will take over in a century. If is not a question of if, but when. Germany and other European countries are offering incentives for its populations to reproduce and have larger families, but it doesn't seem to be working. Incentives must be made to encourage Muslim emigrants from trying to flood the system with babies born into poverty such as stop allowing the government to take care of them. The majority of France's welfare system (and prison system for that matter) is devoted to looking after Muslims who emigrated there from countries like Algeria. France colonized Algeria and feels some sense of guilt about it so they decided to let Algerian's have free reign over their country. It is backfiring on them in a tremendous way, and they need to wake up and make changes in their immigration policies. Nobody from another country is born with the "rights" to have free access to other countries. People come here only because we let them.

How might the Christianized world change to facilitate the peace required in which co-existance can be had? The Muslems?


I doubt there is much we can do. Everytime we try they hate us for it and it breeds more violence.

Dartagnan, little question you feel justified in your stance. Am i right to conclude yours in a fanatical anti-Muslim stance?


No. It is a realistic stance that accepts the facts and evidence for what they are. I am not anti-Muslim; I am pro-mlticulturalism. The problem is American culture is never considered an equal partner in multiculturalism, which is rather ironic. It is systematically being squeezed out. We are taught in school, in the media and by our international neighbors that being American is nothing to be proud of; that the best thing we could do is sit back and let other cultures swarm us to the point of suffocation. If we don't then we are racists, bigots, et cetera; I mean, everyone knows the white Christians have nothing to be proud of except their racist and elitist attitudes? Being a white Christian male is the worst thing you can be living in America. Even though you're slowly becoming a minority, you're already treated worse than some of them. But hey, it is fair justice since we deserve it, right?

As for your comment re USA support of Egypt, there may be some truth to that???


It is true. Thanks to the Camp David Accords, the US has committed billions every year to Egypt just so they won't attack Israel. Clinton did the same thing with N. Korea, which is why N. Korea has become a problem during the Bush administration. Clinton committed hundreds of milions of barrels of free oil for n. Korea, just as a bribe not to create nuclear weapons. Then came the Bush administration and nipped that in the butt.

US has been generous to many over the years. Including some who they have alienated...that's another thread :-)


The US is the most generous nation in the world, yet we remain the most hated. Go figure.

While recently in Cario i visited Christian churches, and witnesssed Christians and Moslems living, associating and working together. Touring Egypt we visited both Christian Monastries and Muslem Mosques--some of the largest in Egypt--without fear or incident.


Too bad the residents of Cairo don't share in your confort. Coptic Christians are an oppressed group if there ever was one. They are not permitted to build new Churches, a Nun was stabbed to death on the street last year and Muslim riots occur whenever they find a stupid reason to complain. Jews have already been almost completely forced out of Egypt, and I am amzed the copts have hung on as long as they have.

Except to be engaged by a group of currious youth who wanted to know about us, what i thought of Egypt and how we were enjoying our trip... My bus had to wait as i wandered lost amidst a sea of Egyptians, a few of whom that could speak English guided me back...


You're a tourist. Maybe you should have flashed them a crucifix to see their reaction.

Dart, i'm not sure what You propose in this perceived conflict? I don't know your socio-politico, or your religious/sectarian position? Will you please declare those for me/us? Are You a TBChristian? ;-) Warm regards, Roger


Sure. I used to be a democrat, them republican, but now I am in the middle somewhere. What I propose is simple really: immigration reform. My wife was deported from teh US and she is Brazilian. Brazilians have a tremendously difficult time getting in the US. They have to answer alls sorts of probing questions about their intentions, their goals, their family, income, et cetera. Most of them cannot come unless they already have family there to stay with (which they have to prove!) and most cannot come unless they can prove they come from an upper class. If they come from a lower class it could mean they will probably justrun loose in the States and work illegally. This sounds like unfair discrimination right? Well that has been standard fare in immigration filtering long before 9-11, so all I am saying is apply it equally to everyone from all countries. European countries should adopt the same policy. So far I think we have been consistent with muslims. I mean there is a reason why there are so many Saudi Arabian Muslims in America and there are impoverished Angolans and Morroccans in France. Saudis tend to have money. They tend to come to American with high education/economic goals. They can prove an ability to contribute to the economy in a positive way and most of them actually do. Muslims in America represent the most rivileged and richest Muslim society in the entire world!

Our immigration policy has much to do with the fact that there are only 2-3 million Muslims here in N. America and about 40% of them come from abroad. Islam is not an appealing faith, and conversions are relatively few. Islam is booming because of its institutionalized and outrageous breeding habits. But it is booming in Europe more than it is here. I guess the good thing about this is that Americans can see what opening the borders wil get them, by simply taking a look at the economic/legal burdens the Muslims are causing in Europe.

However, I do think we should go a step further, make immigrants put their hand on the Bible and swear allegiance to the laws of the State. From what I understand this is no longer required. I would also put immigrants who are waiting to obtain citizenship, on a longer trail period, meaning if they broke an of these commitments by preaching anti-American sentiments (as we know so many Muslims do under the banner of "free speech"), and give us reason to question their loyalties, then their application for citizenship should be revoked and deportation should ensue. We don't need people like that coming here trying to recreate America in their image.
_Roger Morrison
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Post by _Roger Morrison »

Dart, thanks for your response. You say re "...things to change..."
Well, first and foremost is the breeding factor. Muslims everywhere tend to outbreed the rest of us, and for some weird reason or another Europe´s birthrate is dropping way below the global average. It isn´t even breeding at a rate to keep its numbers even since more people die than are born every year. Muslims typically breed at a rate anywhere from twice to six times the global average. That is outrageous given the fact that the majorit of them come from impoverished societies.

From your choice of the word "breed", rather than 'birth-rate', i sense disrespect for Moslems/Muslims in general. Do you feel the same about Roman Catholics who do not practice birth control, in NA, or in 3rd world countries? Mormons were schooled in the same birth ideology.

As you probably know "revenge-of-the-craddle" was expected in French Canada, Quebec, to out-populate the English. However EDUCATION has more than balanced that blind obedience. I expect it will in the Muslim faith as well, given free access to education for BOTH genders as they have in NA.

Maybe consider the "Serenity Prayer"...change the things i can, accept thr things i can't change, and grant the wisdom to know the difference..." and be patient ;-)


I doubt there is much we can do. Everytime we try they hate us for it and it breeds more violence.


Respectfully Dart, i don't think You have given this enough thought. Try again...



I am not anti-Muslim; I am pro-mlticulturalism. The problem is American culture is never considered an equal partner in multiculturalism, which is rather ironic. It is systematically being squeezed out. We are taught in school, in the media and by our international neighbors that being American is nothing to be proud of; that the best thing we could do is sit back and let other cultures swarm us to the point of suffocation. If we don't then we are racists, bigots, et cetera; I mean, everyone knows the white Christians have nothing to be proud of except their racist and elitist attitudes? Being a white Christian male is the worst thing you can be living in America. Even though you're slowly becoming a minority, you're already treated worse than some of them. But hey, it is fair justice since we deserve it, right?


I wonder if you really understand "multiculturalism"? The purpose of MC is to change the indigenous culture. Some 'natives', such as you, understandably tend to resist the change... When did your schools start teaching "Shame-on-America"? Seems an abundance of US Patriotism from what i see: Hand-over-heart when singing the NA, and i think it is still sung in classrooms and at sports-events?? "...a white Christian male..." of what persuaison?

"...it's fair...right?" Life isn't by nature "fair", obviously some are luckier than others. Fairness is the attempt to level "luck", which means compromise. Not an always easy thing to extend... Re USA generousity you say:

[quoteThanks to the Camp David Accords, the US has committed billions every year to Egypt just so they won't attack Israel. Clinton did the same thing with N. Korea, which is why N. Korea has become a problem during the Bush administration. Clinton committed hundreds of milions of barrels of free oil for n. Korea, just as a bribe not to create nuclear weapons. Then came the Bush administration and nipped that in the butt.
(did you miss my facts on the Aswan Dam?:-)

[/quote]

"...nipped in the "butt". Thay's a new one to me, LOL! "Nipped in the 'bud'" as when pruning trees etc. to improve or stint growth is the universal understanding. Maybe a Freudian slip? USA teams, etc. conditioned to "kick butt" just can't seem to get out of "buttism". Whether it's Kickin', or Kissin'...whatever suits their purpose. :-) Please allow me this little bit of fun at your expence!?!? Thanks, assuming congeniality :-)

The US is the most generous nation in the world, yet we remain the most hated. Go figure.

I respectfully suggest you research on a per capita basis. I think you will find that USA are not at the top, as you think. And i also suggest USA might benefit everyone if they honestly did "Go figure". Nothing without reasons...
[/quote]
"""...a Nun was stabbed to death on the street last year and Muslim riots occur whenever they find a stupid reason to complain""" Sounds like many mega cities in NA?! "Riots", recall Detroit, Flint, South Watts, Mississippi, Alabama, etc???

I will respond to the bold i placed within your quote below:
I used to be a democrat, them republican, but now I am in the middle somewhere. What I propose is simple really: immigration reform. It seems fencing is one attempt? My wife was deported from teh US and she is Brazilian. Brazilians have a tremendously difficult time getting in the US. They have to answer alls sorts of probing questions about their intentions, their goals, their family, income, et cetera. Most of them cannot come unless they already have family there Do i gather from that You are not now in the USA? to stay with (which they have to prove!) and most cannot come unless they can prove they come from an upper class. If they come from a lower class it could mean they will probably justrun loose in the States and work illegally. This sounds like unfair discrimination right? Well that has been standard fare in immigration filtering long before 9-11, so all I am saying is apply it equally to everyone from all countries. Seems fro the above the USA are quite careful about who comes 'in'. Would You propose encouaging "lower classes" as enshrined by the Statue of Liberty? European countries should adopt the same policy. So far I think we have been consistent with muslims. I mean there is a reason why there are so many Saudi Arabian Muslims in America and there are impoverished Angolans and Morroccans in France. Saudis tend to have money. They tend to come to American with high education/economic goals. They can prove an ability to contribute to the economy in a positive way and most of them actually do. Muslims in America represent the most rivileged and richest Muslim society in the entire world! Outside of Dubai, and the other Arab Emirates?? Our immigration policy has much to do with the fact that there are only 2-3 million Muslims here in N. America and about 40% of them come from abroad. Islam is not an appealing faith, and conversions are relatively few. Islam is booming because of its institutionalized and outrageous breeding habits. But it is booming in Europe more than it is here. I guess the good thing about this is that Americans can see what opening the borders wil get them, by simply taking a look at the economic/legal burdens the Muslims are causing in Europe.

However, I do think we should go a step further, make immigrants put their hand on the Bible and swear allegiance Even when they don't accept the Bible as 'we' do? Seems their hand on the Koran might be better? to the laws of the State. From what I understand this is no longer required. I would also put immigrants who are waiting to obtain citizenship, on a longer trail period, Good idea! meaning if they broke an of these commitments by preaching anti-American sentiments (as we know so many Muslims do under the banner of "free speech"), and give us reason to question their loyalties, then their application for citizenship should be revoked and deportation should ensue. We don't need people like that coming here trying to recreate America Ever think a little recreation might help? in their image.



Dart, it isn't hard to have sympathy for your desire to make things better/easier for your wife re USA residency. I think You have found the source of your difficulties: USA immigration policies. What can/will be done about them is in the hands of the Democratic Government. I respectfully suggest your negativity towards Muslems is more scape-goating than anything. They are simply the latest identifiable group to lay blame upon. All ethnic groups bore the same discrimination: Irish, Poles, Italians, Germans, Asians,etc. through the initial generations. Now the 'lucky' of their following generations enjoy the good things of the USA.

The "Melting-pot" worked because it had to. "Multiculturalism" works by evolution to enrich the whole by removing prejudice and discrimination as society blends in the "Rainbow Coalition". It is of a higher order. One which i tend to think we will inhabit as we over come our insecurities and fears, and see "God" in each other.

That will lead to places we could never experience while we perceived the 'Devil' in strangers and our enemies.
Those "two new commandments" again... Warm regards, Roger
_harmony
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Post by _harmony »

The "Melting-pot" worked because it had to. "Multiculturalism" works by evolution to enrich the whole by removing prejudice and discrimination as society blends in the "Rainbow Coalition". It is of a higher order. One which i tend to think we will inhabit as we over come our insecurities and fears, and see "God" in each other.

That will lead to places we could never experience while we perceived the 'Devil' in strangers and our enemies. Those "two new commandments" again... Warm regards, Roger


Ahem. Not meaning to butt (*grin*) in here, but the melting pot isn't working anymore, if it ever did. Were it to have worked, we wouldn't have such things as Chinatown, Little Mexico, or Little Cuba. Until (and I'm not holding my breath) immigrants see themselves as American citizens first, we won't be 'melted' together at all. We'll continue to be... Mexican-Americans, Asian-Americans, Cuban-Americans, etc, not Americans.
_dartagnan
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Post by _dartagnan »

From your choice of the word "breed", rather than 'birth-rate', i sense disrespect for Moslems/Muslims in general.


If so, then I guess it must mean I equally disrespect white Europeans since I also said, “[Europe] isn´t even breeding at a rate to keep its numbers even.”

Do you feel the same about Roman Catholics who do not practice birth control, in NA, or in 3rd world countries? Mormons were schooled in the same birth ideology.


What do you mean? The most outrageous breeding societies are generally those with Muslim majorities. http://www.indexmundi.com/g/r.aspx?c=ir&v=25

I wonder if you really understand "multiculturalism"? The purpose of MC is to change the indigenous culture. Some 'natives', such as you, understandably tend to resist the change...


Yes it was tongue in cheek, as I see a trend that will make the indigenous American culture obsolete within a few decades. To say I am for multiculturalism is to say I am for equal treatment and privileges of all cultures. Western societies have consistently sacrificed their own culture on the altar of multiculturalism, just for the sake of avoiding any accusations of racism.

When did your schools start teaching "Shame-on-America"? Seems an abundance of US Patriotism from what i see: Hand-over-heart when singing the NA, and i think it is still sung in classrooms and at sports-events?? "...a white Christian male..." of what persuaison?


But you’re missing the point really. This stuff was the norm 40, even 20 years ago. Now there are groups outlawing the pledge of allegiance. Prayer has systematically been taken out of most schools – unless of course you are a Muslim, and then a private room at the taxpayer’s expense will likely be provided for you. Things are gradually changing to accommodate the emigrants who refuse to assimilate. Students living off the American government are more likely to go out and burn an American flag, rather than pledge allegiance to it.

I respectfully suggest you research on a per capita basis. I think you will find that USA are not at the top, as you think. And i also suggest USA might benefit everyone if they honestly did "Go figure". Nothing without reasons...


I’ll direct you to a NYT article that explains how we really are the most giving country:
ALTHOUGH the Bush administration has now pledged $350 million for the Asian tsunami catastrophe, claims that America is "stingy" are still in the air. The criticism stems from the much-touted fact that our government's foreign aid ranks last among developed countries as a percentage of gross national income.
This rankles, as Americans tend to think of themselves as a generous people. How can we, the richest nation in the world, not be more caring? The answer is simple: we actually are.
For one thing, our government gives the highest absolute amount in foreign aid - more than $16 billion in 2003. And this does not include the cost of our global military presence, which helps provide the stability needed for economic growth, or the billions spent on developing medicines that save millions of lives in poorer nations.
Most important, however, Americans generally help people abroad the same way they help people at home: through private charities, religious organizations, foundations, corporations, universities and money sent to relatives. In 2000, all this came to more than $35 billion, more than three times what the government gave. And this does did not include giving by local churches or by overseas affiliates of American corporations.
The fact is, foreign aid is being privatized. A study by the Foundation Center found that international giving by foundations grew by 79 percent 1998 from 2002, while overall giving grew by only 42 percent. Private giving is usually faster, nimbler and more directly accountable than government aid. Overhead costs are lower, and it can better avoid interference by corrupt officials. It's no surprise that some of the first groups on the scene in Asia were private; on the day of the earthquake, CARE bought food for more than 8,000 Sri Lankans along with purification supplies and sleeping mats for 500 families.
The Europeans assist the needy abroad as they do the needy at home, primarily through government programs. This makes them appear generous: Norway ranks first in allocating 0.92 percent of its gross national income to foreign aid. But Norway's $2 billion of yearly aid is less than what American companies alone give.
So rather than talking about our stinginess, the Europeans and the United Nations should look to increase the role of private donors. After all, the victims of a tsunami do not care whether the food, medicine and clean water come from a government or an independent charity. – “A High Quality of Mercy” By CAROL ADELMAN January 4, 2005

...a Nun was stabbed to death on the street last year and Muslim riots occur whenever they find a stupid reason to complain""" Sounds like many mega cities in NA?! "Riots", recall Detroit, Flint, South Watts, Mississippi, Alabama, etc???


Oh? Please provide me just one instance where a Catholic Nun was stabbed on the street because of a rumor about a DVD that may or may not be offensive to another religious group. Please name one comparable NA riot by a religious group that has gone on for many months, involving the arbitrary arson of thousands of privately owned vehicles. Please name one NA city where religious discrimination is lawful.

Dart, it isn't hard to have sympathy for your desire to make things better/easier for your wife re USA residency. I think You have found the source of your difficulties: USA immigration policies.


This isn’t about making my wife a US resident. We put that behind us and we live happily in Brazil now. Bt my experience through this made it clear to me just how difficult it is for people to become citizens.

What can/will be done about them is in the hands of the Democratic Government. I respectfully suggest your negativity towards Muslems is more scape-goating than anything


Howso? If I have a negative attitude towards Muslims, they certainly haven’t indicated it to me. But if I did have a negative attitude it is one they probably well earned.

They are simply the latest identifiable group to lay blame upon.


Blame for what? I am not blaming Muslims for anything other than what they admit doing. They come here and try to subvert the system for their own political/religious purposes. This is not really something that is beyond dispute. It is a fact that many have admitted. Do all of them come with this intention? I find little reason to doubt it given the countries they come from that provide them with elite status as all other religious adherents cling to second-class citizen status.

The "Melting-pot" worked because it had to. "Multiculturalism" works by evolution to enrich the whole by removing prejudice and discrimination as society blends in the "Rainbow Coalition".


In what way does it work? Is American a more united nation now than it was when it wasn’t a multicultural haven? The academy is leaning strongly in the anti-American direction. Some academics make this their theme song because it goes over so well with their peers. Does America even have its own culture anymore? Everything “Christian” is gradually being surgically removed by the ACLU’s legal excursions, as it scours the nation looking for tiny towns with crosses on its city emblems to compel its removal. Yet, in Deerborn Michigan Muslims have formed an enclave and a voting bloc that has given them control over the city council. The result? Indigenous Americans whose families have been there for generations, are now forced to hear a Muslim prayer blasted through the town 5 times a day, beginning at 6am. A prayer that says Muhammad is God’s prophet.

And the real kicker is that to complain about it means you’re anti-Muslim and probably a racist.

It is of a higher order.


Tell that to the Muslims who come from Muslim majority countries that outlaw religious pluralism and equality. How many countries are 90+% Muslim? How many are 99% Muslim? You’d be surprised. These people come here with the intent to make N. America the same. They are only interested in the rights of the religious minority so long as that includes them.
_dartagnan
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Post by _dartagnan »

_dartagnan
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Post by _dartagnan »

This was posted online today, and I post it here because it echoes much of what I have said on this thread:

My Trip Through Islamic America

By Dr. L. John Van Til
FrontPageMagazine.com | January 22, 2007

Last fall I visited Dearborn, Michigan, to attend a high school class reunion. I arrived early enough to drive around my old neighborhood. To my surprise, it had become almost totally an Arab population. Every business I passed displayed Arab-English signs, and on the front lawn of one of Dearborn’s public schools was a 5-by-7 foot “Peaceful Ramadan” sign. Apparently, the Supreme Court’s rules about religious symbols on public school property are not honored in Dearborn. It would be interesting to know why.

After settling in to visit with old classmates, the conversation eventually turned to the size and nature of Dearborn’s Arab community. I told them about my profile of Osama bin Ladin and about his Declaration of War against the West—in particular, against the United States and Israel. When I noted that the bin Ladin family was Yemeni-born, some of them expressed fear that there might be jihad cells among the thousands of Yemeni in their town.


We also discussed the Danish cartoon issue and how, in my view, that issue had laid bare the underlying strategy of the huge, worldwide jihad movement—i.e., war against Jews and Christians. Indeed, reaction to the cartoons demonstrated how extensive jihad influence had become in the West, especially in Europe. After a few days’ hesitation, during which millions of Muslims around the world proclaimed their indignation, most European editors pronounced the cartoons distasteful and refused to publish them. And what was the jihad strategy in this situation? Its leaders wished to suppress free speech around the world in the name of Islam.


I also told my friends that there were three or four basic facets of Islam that ought to concern all Americans. The most important of these is its transnational nature—a little known characteristic of Islam. It refers to Islam’s claim that it always stands above the laws of every nation because it is ultimately a religious rather than political movement. Westerners need to understand that there is no distinction in Islam between religion and politics, no separation of church and state. Thus, in the case of the recent American-supported constitutions of Afghanistan and Iraq—constitutions loudly proclaimed to be democratic—each has a clause stating that Islamic law transcends all other laws. This means for them, and all Muslims with few exceptions, that they have a greater loyalty to Islam and its worldwide goals than they do to the nation in which they happen to live. My friends obviously wondered where ultimate loyalty lay among Muslims in America.


Second, Muslim countries have produced millions of young men who are trained in the “virtues” of jihad. They are happy—no, overjoyed—to support jihad as they ponder eternity with scores of young virgins for their personal entertainment. Parenthetically, it is striking to note that in Islamic countries, birthrates are two to three times greater than among European natives. Surely this spells doom for Europe in the next decade or two. This is another example of the old axiom: Demographics are decisive in defining the future.


Americans also ought to take notice of the fact that no Islamic leaders, anywhere in the world, have clearly condemned jihadists. Time and again when asked directly whether they condemn the practice of jihad, Islamic leaders everywhere fail to clearly state their opposition to it. Indeed, there is plenty of evidence that many mosque leaders in the West actively support jihad efforts since Osama bin Ladin and his kin went on the war-path in the late 1980s.


I discussed one more facet of Islam: Jihadists and their supporters are engaged in a religious war against the West, something Washington leaders avoid stating. This war is but a late chapter in the 1300 year fight Islam has waged against all non-Muslims, the medieval crusades being the most notorious example.


Driving home from the class reunion, I wondered how our elected leaders in Washington could be so slow to understand the meaning of the bombing of the USS Cole and embassies in Africa, not to mention the first attempt to destroy the World Trade Center in 1993. And then 9-11 happened. Why is that disaster not called what it was, like the embassies and the USS Cole, a jihadist act in a religious war against us? It certainly is accurate to call the jihadists terrorists as the president does, but that is not enough! It would convey more of a sense of urgency for the president to call these radical Islamic acts “jihads” because they are another chapter in the on-going religious war against the West by radical Muslims. Likely that designation would not be politically correct, or even multi-culturally correct. It is time, however, to move beyond those social fads and do some plain talking about what we face.

Will it take another 9-11 or worse to wake up the American people to the fact that we are in a serious struggle for the survival of our civilization? Hopefully the alarm will go off and shatter our drowsy apathy toward the jihad movement’s threat.

L. John Van Til, Ph.D., is a Fellow for Law & Humanities with the Center for Vision & Values at Grove City College.
_dartagnan
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Post by _dartagnan »

Political radicals linked to extremist Muslim groups have exploited a federal program aimed at easing the entry of "religious workers" to the United States to slip potential terrorists into the country, according to a recent legal complaint.

A complaint from the U.S. Attorney's Office in New York, which was unsealed in February, asserts that a Muslim religious leader, Mohammed Khalil, brought more than 200 individuals into the country claiming they were religious workers. Khalil allegedly prepared fake documents for the people, claiming they were experts in the Koran or the Arabic language. He charged $8,000 apiece for obtaining the visas.

Khalil, who became a U.S. citizen in 1987, is alleged to have pledged support to Osama bin Laden in a secretly taped conversation and expressed his desire to see another terrorist attack on the country. http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/ ... i_n9217382

But more serious allegations surround the arrest of the two imams. The immigration papers for both Masood and Hannan were obtained with the help of Muhammad Khalil, the imam of a Brooklyn mosque who was convicted in 2004 of a massive smuggling operation for submitting hundreds of false visa applications under the Religious Workers Program. Over more than a decade, Khalil had used his mosque, run out of a basement of a greeting card store, to sponsor more than 200 Middle Eastern Muslims who had paid Khalil fees ranging from $5,000 to $8,000 for a religious worker visa, which authorities claimed netted Khalil more than $600,000 during the life of the scam. Once in the U.S., the illegal aliens worked at gas stations and various other jobs entirely unrelated to mosque. Prosecutors also had audio recordings of Khalil advocating violent jihad, and warning his followers to arm themselves in anticipation of another 9/11-style attack. Masood’s visa application listed Khalil as his sponsor, and Hannan not only entered the country with Khalil’s help, but worked for Khalil for three-and-a-half years in Brooklyn while the smuggling operation was ongoing before moving to Boston.

No mention of the imams’s arrest has been made by the national mainstream news media, and the only major news outlet covering the story, the Boston Globe (owned by the New York Times), has dedicated its coverage mostly to airing the grievances of the imams’ supporters. http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Re ... p?ID=25836


I say deport his ass. Oh, but he is a citizen now and has freedom of speech right? How many more of these people come here to become citizens just so they can use the rights and privileges American grants them, against America? Now the government will be forced to use the shotgun approach in blocking the Religious Workers Program by hindering US access to Catholics, Hindus and Jews, just so they won’t appear to be discriminating against the only religious group that has tried to take advantage of it.
_Ray A

Post by _Ray A »

dartagnan wrote:http://kevingraham.org/gallery/Rio-de-Janeiro


Great pics Kevin. You have such a nice family.
_dartagnan
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Post by _dartagnan »

Thanks Ray.

The girl in the middle is actually my sister-in-law and those are her two boys. I flew to Rio to pick them up and drive them back here to live with us. That was an adventure on 900 miles of Brazilian roads. But the scenery was amazing.

It was spooky how she looked so much like my wife. I had never met her before. The two little ones are mine.

Anyway, here are the other albums so you can see what I am talking about.

http://kevingraham.org/gallery/
_Roger Morrison
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Post by _Roger Morrison »

harmony wrote:
The "Melting-pot" worked because it had to. "Multiculturalism" works by evolution to enrich the whole by removing prejudice and discrimination as society blends in the "Rainbow Coalition". It is of a higher order. One which i tend to think we will inhabit as we over come our insecurities and fears, and see "God" in each other.

That will lead to places we could never experience while we perceived the 'Devil' in strangers and our enemies. Those "two new commandments" again... Warm regards, Roger


Ahem. Not meaning to butt (*grin*) in here, but the melting pot isn't working anymore, if it ever did. Were it to have worked, we wouldn't have such things as Chinatown, Little Mexico, or Little Cuba. Until (and I'm not holding my breath) immigrants see themselves as American citizens first, we won't be 'melted' together at all. We'll continue to be... Mexican-Americans, Asian-Americans, Cuban-Americans, etc, not Americans.


Harmony,
you are correct. I didn't mean to indicate it 'worked well'. Rubbing sticks together "works" to creats fire... Seems with techno stuff there is less resistance to "new" than when introducing new/different social (religious?!) concepts.
You know what i'm saying?

We could extend the realization about Christianism: "IF it had worked" as Jesus intended, we wouldn't be in the state of injustice world-wide as we now are. This is not saying we are living in the worst of times.

We are living in challenging times, as humanity ever has. How those challenges are resolved in our time will determine how evolving humanity abides their times...

Harmony, is there a need for anyone to "...see themselves as American/British/French/Canadian/Russian/Whatever citizens..."? Does "God" see us in those terms? I think not. Is there a purpose served in Nationalism? Patriotism? Sectarianism? Racialism? Sexism????? Of course, they "work". But, to what end/purpose? "God's", Mammon's or Humanity's?

IMSCO, until we who are alive pay more attention to the living than to the dead (as in LDSism), and concern our selves with THIS life, and rectifying injustice here, than waiting for Heaven's glory (as in Christianism) we have missed the real point of Jesus' three years. Warm regards, Roger
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