Aueteur55's Comments from Seven's Thread re/Joseph Smith

[_Seven]

Really? How do you explain Joe breaking the law, lying to the members/public, going against his own canonized scripture and cheating on his wife, all in the name of polygamy?

Breaking the law:
When was he convicted of anything?

lying to the members:
What you call lying I call protecting, intermingled with a bit of fear.

going against his own canonized scripture:
I don't believe he ever did. I've been shown some of these contradictions but they aren't as persuasive to me as they are to some. The whole religion doesn't crumble due to some supposed scriptural contradictions.

Cheating on his wife:
This is between him, Emma and God

all in the name of polygamy?:
I think very little of what he did was in the name of polygamy.

I would like to post a quote from Guy Sager that sums up for me how disturbing it is when LDS members defend Joseph Smith's immoral behavior:

The Old Testament, for example, is morally abysmal, yet believers accept it hook line and sinker with nary any indication that they find it the least bit troubling.

If one can accept without moral reflection genocide, murder, rape, and slavery, why would polygamy cause them any moral qualms?

The real interesting question here is how religion (or dogmatic belief more generally) serves to effectively to dull the moral sensibilities of otherwise decent, fair, reasonable people.

[_guy sajer]

I usually say "Mommy is sick" because I really am sick inside when I think about Joseph Smith and going back.

Yet you never met the man. I believe if we could meet Joseph face to face he would win us over. He could defend himself and we would hear the truth from his own lips. I've read everything you have about Joseph Smith and yet I can say he is a true friend to the saints.

Don't believe cracks of a cloudy history so easily. We're only getting skewed pieces of the puzzle.

This, of course, fails to account for the many who met Joseph face to face and who (sooner or later) concluded that he was a fraud and liar, including many of those who knew him best.

World history of full of charismatic charlatans who attracted devoted followers.

Why were all those people, who all believed as strongly as you do, duped but you're not?

It's difficult to admit that you've been duped, but believe me, the embarrassment fades over time.

[Physics Guy]

Really? How do you explain Joe breaking the law, lying to the members/public, going against his own canonized scripture and cheating on his wife, all in the name of polygamy?

Auteur55: it is a real delight to see you here. Welcome!

Breaking the law:
When was he convicted of anything?

I think this misses the point. I am sure many if not most of us have broken the law without having been convicted. (E.g., jaywalking, driving faster than the speed limit, etc.) Did Joseph Smith break the law? Yes, absolutely. Further, he seems to have broken it in some pretty spectacular ways. (When was the last time *you* ordered up the destruction of a printing press?)

lying to the members:
What you call lying I call protecting, intermingled with a bit of fear.

Huh. "Protecting" people by withholding the truth and frightening them? Sort of like North Korea?

going against his own canonized scripture:
I don't believe he ever did. I've been shown some of these contradictions but they aren't as persuasive to me as they are to some. The whole religion doesn't crumble due to some supposed scriptural contradictions.

There is a contradiction within this very statement!

Cheating on his wife:
This is between him, Emma and God

all in the name of polygamy?:
I think very little of what he did was in the name of polygamy.

I actually agree with this last part.

[_moksha]

It could well be that if Joseph Smith had survived to an older age, when the Angel's sword was not quite so flaming and the urge to raise up a righteous seed had dimmed, the he would have realized that a gaggle of wives can be a real pain in the butt and would have forsworn polygamy. Hard to say, since he never got the chance.

[_truth dancer]

Yet you never met the man. I believe if we could meet Joseph face to face he would win us over. He could defend himself and we would hear the truth from his own lips.

Just curious... Joseph Smith lied all the time about all sorts of things. I don't think anyone refutes this.

So, why do you think if you met him he would speak truth from his own lips?

Why would you trust someone who is known to lie?

~dancer~