Attention Moniker & Beastie

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_marg

Re: Attention Moniker & Beastie

Post by _marg »

Ray A wrote: The judge handed down this sentence, which no murderer would ever get, because he felt that society needed to learn how skewed this kind of thinking is.


What's also in play here is that cultures and societies differ. It's easy to say that women should be able to dress how they want and do what they want, without being treated disrespectfully or fear they will be attacked and raped, when there is good law enforcement and police protection, such as exists in Australia. That police protection does make a difference in giving people freedom to act in ways they couldn't without it.

I'm guessing here but I think there might be some biological evolutionary reason ingrained in humans, why on the whole it seems women are discouraged, viewed more critically, treated with disrespect when they are sexually promiscuous or appear that way, than a man would be. It doesn't seem fair but it seems to be the case.
_antishock8
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Re: Attention Moniker & Beastie

Post by _antishock8 »

I'm not really sure what all has happened, not do I care. But, this thread has spawned an interesting question for me at least.

When do sexual advances become sexual harrassment?

It's not enough to say any unwanted sexual advance can be construed as sexual harrassment, because we've all had someone express interest in us... And it was unwanted, or unappreciated.

For me, it's about control. If you're in a situation where you can't control the behavior, or if the behavior is coming from someone who controls you in one way or another (employment, academic achievement, etc...) then it becomes hostile.

But when you're on a message board where you can choose to block someone, place them on ignore, not read a PM, or skip a thread can it still be sexual harrassment? Libel is one thing, and I just read an article today about someone getting prosecuted for it in Colorado for messages he posted about his ex and her lawyer on Craig's List, but sexual harrassment... Is it another?
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_marg

Re: Attention Moniker & Beastie

Post by _marg »

antishock8 wrote:

But when you're on a message board where you can choose to block someone, place them on ignore, not read a PM, or skip a thread can it still be sexual harrassment?


Well on a public forum it can be harassment, and spreading of unjustified rumors is harrassment. In private as you say the individual on a message board such as this has control.

When it comes to men and women, there is a double standard that goes on when it comes to sexuality. Men are not treated so easily with disrespect as a woman might be for being sexually adventurous. If a man were to appear sexually interested/adventurous, he's unlikely to be hounded by women the same that a women might be. There is a difference which I haven't thought through yet.
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Re: Attention Moniker & Beastie

Post by _Some Schmo »

Well, considering this question out of the context of the discussion we've had, I think sexual harassment on a message board would not only be continued, unwanted sexual advances, but also disrespectful sexually charged language, like what someone might explicitly say they're going to do to a person with the lights off (and goes beyond missionary position sex, if you know what I mean).

Really, I don't think it would take much to cross that line. What we're really talking about here is making someone of the opposite sex uncomfortable with what is written (uncomfortable beyond, "ugh, I don't want to date this guy, how do I let him down easy" uncomfortable).
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_GoodK

Re: Attention Moniker & Beastie

Post by _GoodK »

marg wrote:No where have I made a judgement call and said sexuality should be repressed. What I have said was that Moniker has projected an image of wanting male attention and of being sexually liberal. Therefore it doesn't surprise me that a male might proposition her.


I really don't want to drag this out any further - but I also don't agree with you on this, Marg (and you know I agree with you on lots).

For what it's worth, if Moniker was ever "wanting male attention" all she would need to do is use a real picture of herself for her avatar. Seriously. The fact that she doesn't says A LOT.

She doesn't (nor does anyone else) deserve to be attacked for the actions, or the immature reactions, of online weirdoes.

We're talking about a people who have a very weird, bizarre, and in my opinion perverted view of sexuality. On top of that, men in general will misconstrue any form of politeness or friendliness from the opposite sex (or maybe not) as a come on. This is a fact. I'm convinced that the cute blonde girl at the AT&T store yesterday was into me. If, during our interaction, I creep-ishly suggested we head back to my place for a microwave pizza and some Robot Chicken I would be out of line. Not her. No matter how "flirty" she was.

And might I add, if more men listened to the teachings of Professor Tom Leykis, and followed the tenets of Leykis 101, things like this wouldn't happen. That's all I'm going to say about that.

Blow me up, Tom.
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Re: Attention Moniker & Beastie

Post by _Mister Scratch »

GoodK wrote:
marg wrote:No where have I made a judgement call and said sexuality should be repressed. What I have said was that Moniker has projected an image of wanting male attention and of being sexually liberal. Therefore it doesn't surprise me that a male might proposition her.


I really don't want to drag this out any further - but I also don't agree with you on this, Marg (and you know I agree with you on lots).

For what it's worth, if Moniker was ever "wanting male attention" all she would need to do is use a real picture of herself for her avatar. Seriously. The fact that she doesn't says A LOT.



Just as a matter of trivia, Moniker *has* posted pictures of herself--making "kissy" faces and whatnot--on more than one occasion. But you are right, GoodK: this doesn't excuse the behavior of the males.
_marg

Re: Attention Moniker & Beastie

Post by _marg »

Thanks for your feedback Eric, I do respect what you have to say.

I really don't want to drag this out any further - but I also don't agree with you on this, Marg (and you know I agree with you on lots).


Agreed don't like to drag this out, for one thing anything written tends to be blown out of greater proportion than if said verbally. One can read and reread the written word and analyize it to death.

For what it's worth, if Moniker was ever "wanting male attention" all she would need to do is use a real picture of herself for her avatar. Seriously. The fact that she doesn't says A LOT.


Frankly there is no problem with anyone male or female wanting attention sexually. No problem whatsoever with that.

She doesn't (nor does anyone else) deserve to be attacked for the actions, or the immature reactions, of online weirdoes.


I don't suggest anyone deserves to be attacked. My argument has only been that based on posts if someone presents themselves as sexually liberal, not likely to be offended by a proposition, it is not unreasonable for any male or female for that matter to pick up on sexual cues and act on them. There's nothing wrong with that. And I do believe based on my perception of what was written on the board that cues were given, that's the other argument I've made.

I have given this greater consideration over the last day or so, tried to empathize and I think I'm finally getting what the crux of the matter is.

When a woman is perceived to be sexually available, unrepressed, adventurous, loose...males tend to lose respect and treat those women as objects, as a temporary game. Some women can handle that and might even enjoy it. The same doesn't apply to men as much. Men don't get treated with the same disrespect if they are sexually available. And even if they did, I think many wouldn't mind it. Take you for example, do you care if women think you are easy to get into bed with? :) The word is out Eric, all around L.A. , it's even heading to Canada. lol Now are you concerned?

So the crux of the matter here is disrespect, not that propositions were made. It's rumors, lots of proposition which were indicative of disrespect. And that didn't develop solely by board postings. That same sequence of events if it happened to a male would not likely have resulted in the same disrespect shown.


We're talking about a people who have a very weird, bizarre, and in my opinion perverted view of sexuality.


Not really Eric, it's human nature. It's the way it is. Men do classify women into "easy sexual conquests" who they often will disrespect versus "good women" who they treat with respect. I've heard you say this to me yourself, that you want a "good" woman like your first girlfriend, not one of the easy ones that you've sexually had fun with temporarily.

On top of that, men in general will misconstrue any form of politeness or friendliness from the opposite sex (or maybe not) as a come on. This is a fact. I'm convinced that the cute blonde girl at the AT&T store yesterday was into me. If, during our interaction, I creep-ishly suggested we head back to my place for a microwave pizza and some Robot Chicken I would be out of line. Not her. No matter how "flirty" she was.


Not really Eric, you wouldn't be out of line propositioning her. But generally people who are serious about another for a long term relationship want to know the person on a deeper level than just sexually and that takes time, care and consideration.

And might I add, if more men listened to the teachings of Professor Tom Leykis, and followed the tenets of Leykis 101, things like this wouldn't happen. That's all I'm going to say about that.

Blow me up, Tom.


Again not really Eric. Leykis is basically advising guys from what I can gather by my very brief exposure, to not get taken in by girls using sex to trap a guy for selfish purposes. And that a guy should focus on establishing a career first and foremost before worrying about developing a serious relationship, for his own best interests and actually that of his future family should he have one.
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Re: Attention Moniker & Beastie

Post by _Bond James Bond »

Mister Scratch wrote:For what it's worth, if Moniker was ever "wanting male attention" all she would need to do is use a real picture of herself for her avatar. Seriously. The fact that she doesn't says A LOT.



It was more of a raspberry. [sticking tongue out If I recall correctly]
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Re: Attention Moniker & Beastie

Post by _Gadianton »

And might I add, if more men listened to the teachings of Professor Tom Leykis, and followed the tenets of Leykis 101, things like this wouldn't happen. That's all I'm going to say about that.


I have to agree that there is a disturbingly high number of male posters here who need Leykis, badly.
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_marg

Re: Attention Moniker & Beastie

Post by _marg »

Gadianton wrote:
And might I add, if more men listened to the teachings of Professor Tom Leykis, and followed the tenets of Leykis 101, things like this wouldn't happen. That's all I'm going to say about that.


I have to agree that there is a disturbingly high number of male posters here who need Leykis, badly.


In your opinion how would Leykis help out male posters here?
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