Epic Mormonism Live on Rosebud Accusations

[Kishkumen]

Page 24 now. Wasn't MS Open Stories Foundation a 501c3 Non-profit? If so, who here has seen the board policies at the time in question? Did any of the policies cover reporting procedures? If so, what were they? Did they address workplace harassment? Anything relevant to the events? It sounds as if it was a board in-name-only and not a functioning governing board.

Was there no requirement as to board policies due to the less than 15 employee rule?

I have not seen any documents of that nature. I think they are floating around on Reddit. James Patterson has been posting stuff like that around. My impression is that they were not really prepared for these situations. It was a real barebones operation with a rubber-stamp board.

[Jersey Girl]

Page 24 now. Wasn't MS Open Stories Foundation a 501c3 Non-profit? If so, who here has seen the board policies at the time in question? Did any of the policies cover reporting procedures? If so, what were they? Did they address workplace harassment? Anything relevant to the events? It sounds as if it was a board in-name-only and not a functioning governing board.

Was there no requirement as to board policies due to the less than 15 employee rule?

I have not seen any documents of that nature. I think they are floating around on Reddit. James Patterson has been posting stuff like that around. My impression is that they were not really prepared for these situations. It was a real barebones operation with a rubber-stamp board.

I found this in my reading. Apparently workplace relationships weren't addressed in the board policies at the time. I apologize for coming in with questions as I'm reading and only a bit more than half way through the thread. Trying my best not to disrupt and aggravate!

It's a bit disappointing that Open Stories Foundation decided NOT to implement a ban on work relationships in their new policies after this event. In an ideal world both Dehlin and Rosebud would have been fired under a no-romantic-relationships policy in 2012. John would have had to publicly admit fault, and Open Stories Foundation would be defunct at that point. He could have tried to rebuild his podcast under another name dealing with an audience that knew what he had done.

A simple fraternization policy would have done the trick. (ETA: oh lord, and Cam addresses just that in the following post!)

[Res Ipsa]

Page 24 now. Wasn't MS Open Stories Foundation a 501c3 Non-profit? If so, who here has seen the board policies at the time in question? Did any of the policies cover reporting procedures? If so, what were they? Did they address workplace harassment? Anything relevant to the events? It sounds as if it was a board in-name-only and not a functioning governing board.

Was there no requirement as to board policies due to the less than 15 employee rule?

I’m not sure that employers are ever required to have written policies. I think it’s just a really really really good idea.

As far as I can tell, none of the relevant discrimination or harassment laws applied because the foundation had fewer than 15 employees.

[cwald]

Well, I feel dumber for wasting a hour, another hour, on a Rosebud/Dehlin thread. 39 pages! 39!

Do you want to know who the victim is here? It's not Rosebud, it's me...for having wasted another hour of my life reading the same, the very same "I have evidence, but can't post it because Rosebud deserves her privacy' and 'I'm not putting this here for you, it's for the historians' nonsense we've seen time and time again.

Can I sue Shades to get my hour of life back? I"M THE VICTIM HERE! Damn you Shades!

Welp. Someone else is taking the opportunity to dunk on jpatterson:

https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comme ... nts_being/

So. Many. Sockpuppets. Not a good look for JP & Rosebud.

- Doc

Yeah no kidding. This was the clincher for me.

jpatterson wrote: Your main mistake is assuming I post here with a desire to acquiesce to your wants and needs. I put out information in a variety of places. Sometimes so others will see it, sometimes so John himself will see it.

My job is not to make you happy. You also have the power to ignore my posts. It's funny how that works.

[Jersey Girl]

Welp. Someone else is taking the opportunity to dunk on jpatterson:

https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comme ... nts_being/

So. Many. Sockpuppets. Not a good look for JP & Rosebud.

- Doc

If I am looking at what you are looking at, those are fake YouTube accounts that registered, I guess, the same day as the ML video was uploaded. I believe those were posted by the patterson person on this thread.

[Jersey Girl]

Page 24 now. Wasn't MS Open Stories Foundation a 501c3 Non-profit? If so, who here has seen the board policies at the time in question? Did any of the policies cover reporting procedures? If so, what were they? Did they address workplace harassment? Anything relevant to the events? It sounds as if it was a board in-name-only and not a functioning governing board.

Was there no requirement as to board policies due to the less than 15 employee rule?

I’m not sure that employers are ever required to have written policies. I think it’s just a really really really good idea.

As far as I can tell, none of the relevant discrimination or harassment laws applied because the foundation had fewer than 15 employees.

I think you misunderstood what I asked or my post was sloppily worded. In most states that I'm aware of a 501c3 requires a board of directors, description of board positions/officers (ED, secretary, treasurer) and term limits of each position, by laws and if I am not mistaken, operating policies of the organization. Now. I have only run a 501c3 that was created before my arrival. In the case of Open Stories Foundation, the rules could be different since it was probably categorized as a charitable foundation. I really don't know and my brain is fried having read all 39 pages of this thread.

[Jersey Girl]

I only have a couple of comments to make here. First, I have no horse in this race whatsoever with regard to to John Dehlin or Open Stories Foundation. My one and only interest has been the dynamics of the psychologies at play. So here goes.

1. Lem describes Rosebud as bat-crap crazy. I would agree that she is bat-crap crazy and probably not a little borderline perhaps born of trauma.

2. In an earlier post, Dr. Exiled stated in response to RI...bold emphasis mine:

Reverend, I’m getting lost in the weeds. When you say all the texts, do you mean all the texts that Rosebud and/or John are allowing us to see?

This is a great point. However, wouldn't you think that if rosebud had something, she would have disclosed it by now? I mean, this is what is so frustrating and such a waste of everyone's time. Rosebud, the cancerous pursuer keeps playing "I have secret evidence" and will not show the world the goods. And that makes me believe that we may have all of the relevant emails/texts.

No. She wouldn't have disclosed it by now. Her motivation? No matter how delusional it appears to the onlooker, I believe her motivation is to stay in the relationship with Dehlin. Why? Because a psychologically healthier individual would likely have chosen to spend the last 10 or so years of his/her life, building something more than a case of the ass for a man. in my opinion, the reason she continues what she does long after any hope of retrieving her former position and status has passed, is because as I said, it keeps her in the relationship. It keeps her associated with Dehlin and her previous status.

Else what is the profit to her?

3. Nothing here has changed my impression of Rosebud. Nothing. She went for broke, lost the much hoped for power, position, status, and the man associated with it. When she lost, she started boiling bunnies taking breaks only from her assertions for which she supplied no proof and only ever used to play cat and mouse in public, long enough to let the bunnies reproduce and then boiled the bunnies again. She's keeping herself in the relationship whether she is wanted there or not. I don't think she will ever know true contentment. I feel sorry for her on that count.

4. John Dehlin. naïve. To be honest, I don't recall if Open Stories Foundation was his personal vision or not. In any case, it looks like a group of people decided to form a foundation, got approved for the 5013c status and jwent to town without ever ensuring that the foundation was untouchable. So it got touched. And somewhere along the way, John misused the foundation for his own personal gain. His character and integrity will always be called into question.

There are no winners here.

[Jersey Girl]

Well, I feel dumber for wasting a hour, another hour, on a Rosebud/Dehlin thread. 39 pages! 39!

Do you want to know who the victim is here? It's not Rosebud, it's me...for having wasted another hour of my life reading the same, the very same "I have evidence, but can't post it because Rosebud deserves her privacy' and 'I'm not putting this here for you, it's for the historians' nonsense we've seen time and time again.

Can I sue Shades to get my hour of life back? I"M THE VICTIM HERE! Damn you Shades!

You read this in an hour? I had to go at it in spurts throughout the day. I'm completely brain fried and I can't afford it!

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

Jersey Girl’s hot take with regard to #3 is excellent. Check out JD’s original statement regarding the latest round of nonsense:

https://web.archive.org/web/20210425154 ... legations/

Why have I avoided discussing all of this publicly? For several reasons:

The story is embarrassing to me, Rosebud, and our families. While Margi and I have been EXTREMELY open about this story to family, friends, Open Stories Foundation Board members, co-workers, and attendees of our workshops and retreats over the years, we do believe that even public figures (and most importantly their loved ones) deserve some amount of privacy.

There are many, many good people who are involved in this story who do not deserve to be dragged into public drama. If the story only involved me and Rosebud, I would have been very happy to share it immediately. I am admittedly flawed, deeply value honesty, transparency, and vulnerability, and (because of Mormon church prophet worship) am eager to tear down any attempt to overly honor me for the work I do. But I have avoided discussing all this, in part, because others don’t deserve to be dragged in to all this drama.

As strange as this may sound, I sincerely worry about the health and safety of Rosebud when the facts come out, which they will. I always have been. Rosebud threatened suicide early on in the story when I discussed the idea of speaking out. So for her protection (in part) I held off releasing the facts. Now that the person behind Rosebud is actually making false allegations against me using her real name, and now that folks have told me that they intend to cover the story in a public way, the facts are being forced out, which I’m actually relieved about.

I believe that rape and assault, particularly against women, are huge societal problems. The last thing we need is a very public story of an egregiously false allegation by a woman against a man, which this is. You will see. Don’t believe me. Wait for the evidence. But as a father of two daughters who have ACTUALLY been sexually assaulted, I have wanted to avoid this. For the record, I still believe very strongly that man on woman rape and assault are super serious social problems, and that the vast majority of women are telling the truth about their sexual assaults and/or rapes...and that we should always start by believing women.

No one in this community benefits from a bunch of public drama. This is exactly the type of drama that the Mormon church wants. Which is why folks like Kwaku and Cardon are stoking the drama, funded by the More Good Foundation and FAIRMormon of course, and supported by exMormons like Kate Kelly, Joanna Smith, Kristy Money, Matt Long, etc.

Interesting. He still cares for this psychopath.

Anyway. He cleaned up this statement to a rather curt version here:

https://np.reddit.com/r/exmormon/commen ... legations/

One of his wranglers must’ve talked to him. Lol.

- Doc

[Jersey Girl]

Jersey Girl’s hot take with regard to #3 is excellent.

I'm not reading whatever followed this comment until I say this. I've already stated what I think motivated her. Her ultimate goal? I see a woman who is seeking an identity. Because she doesn't have one. That leads me to believe that she suffered trauma (Sustained chronic abuse?) early in life and I can't get away from that possibility. It is for that reason, that I feel sorry for her. But that doesn't mean that I or anyone else here, needs to give her one single second more of our attention. It doesn't solve anything. It doesn't help her and it certainly does nothing for us.