BCSpace is my favorite mopologist

[_bcspace]

Bc, have all the past policies and statements from Church Prophets and Apostles not indicated to you that racism was in full bloom at the time these policies were present or when the statements were made? If you answer that they did not represent racism, then what precisely did they represent?

You must agree then that the LDS scriptures in question are not racist and you have provided no support for such.

[_bcspace]

Jesus, you're thick

Being thick skinned is better than being ignorant I agree. My name isn't Jesus by the way.

[_thews]

Thanks for the back-up Moksha.

How pathetic... you need back-up.

From that point, I have to consider what it says about skin color. While there are some places where the usage looks symbolic, there are other places where an actual color shift seems indicated.

What part of "White and delightsome" don't you understand? While you grasp at straws and inject what "seems" to be rather than what is, the references to skin color in LDS doctrine I've posted have no gray area. This is literally black and white, while you gravitate towards what you can spin using distortion. Thanks for proving my point for me.

[_moksha]

You must agree then that the LDS scriptures in question are not racist and you have provided no support for such.

They merely reflected the prevailing sentiment of the times. If I were to compare them to Klan publications from the last thirty years they seem benign. However, there is much more 19th Century racial attitudes in Latter-Day Scriptures than from Scriptures recording events from 32 AD to 160 AD. Thank goodness we have both.

What is important to me is where we are at in the here and now. Let God sort out the human error of the past.

[_Saw Skooh]

Jesus, you're thick

Being thick skinned is better than being ignorant I agree. My name isn't Jesus by the way.

Ha ha! Being "thick skinned" is better than being "thick." You added the skin part all on your own. To be clear: You are thick.

[_thews]

Yes, I agree that racism found within those passages is more than symbolism for blindness to the truth. When taken in toto, it looks much like racial ideas that were prevalent then and still remain in some enclaves today.

There's no evidence for that whatsoever. For racism to be present, it must be said that black skin is the source of bad things happening or curses etc. Nothing like that is extant in LDS scripture or doctrine past and present.

bcspace, How can you make this argument when there are many passages in LDS doctrine that specifically states black skin is a curse? For example:

http://mormonthink.com/blackweb.htm#full

2 Nephi 5: 21

'And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people, the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.'

Please address this one example to substantiate your claim that there is "no evidence whatsoever" that LDS doctrine is not racist.

To the lurkers... don't expect a response to this question, as it's not how bcspace operates. What bcspace does, is state things that aren't true, fails to answer direct questions addressing the data presented, and in a later date he'll claim he's "debunked" any criticism. I figure a third grade reading comprehension level is all that would be required to answer the question, but it's much easier to tuck tail and flee.

To Consig, please give us your take on 2 Nephi 5: 21. While you claim "some" LDS doctrine isn't racist, what you're insinuating is that "some" of it is. I contend the multiple references to dark/black skin in LDS doctrine is slam dunk cut and dry regarding its meaning, which would also explain why men with dark skin could not hold the priesthood until 1978. Please enlighten me with your knowledge of the subject.

[_Saw Skooh]

bcspace, How can you make this argument when there are....

bcspace doesn't make arguments. He makes assertions, but not arguments.

[_bcspace]

bcspace doesn't make arguments. He makes assertions, but not arguments.

I often make unassailable assertions and when I argue, I usually win quickly because no one else is able to make a counter argument or they change the subject or devolve into invective etc.

[_bcspace]

Here is an example of my above post:

There's no evidence for that [racism in LDS scripture] whatsoever. For racism to be present, it must be said that black skin is the source of bad things happening or curses etc. Nothing like that is extant in LDS scripture or doctrine past and present.

bcspace, How can you make this argument when there are many passages in LDS doctrine that specifically states black skin is a curse?

Notice how quickly the person wishing to argue with me changed the subject and did it twice in on sentence. He switched from 1) scripture to doctrine and 2) racism to black skin being a curse. I won the argument without even having to post a response.

[_thews]

There's no evidence for that [racism in LDS scripture] whatsoever. For racism to be present, it must be said that black skin is the source of bad things happening or curses etc. Nothing like that is extant in LDS scripture or doctrine past and present.

bcspace, How can you make this argument when there are many passages in LDS doctrine that specifically states black skin is a curse?

Notice how quickly the person wishing to argue with me changed the subject and did it twice in on sentence. He switched from 1) scripture to doctrine and 2) racism to black skin being a curse. I won the argument without even having to post a response.

You didn't "win" anything and have failed to answer to question asked... yet again, as it is your objective to distort the truth. You claimed "it must be said that black skin is the source of bad things happening or curses etc." to which I posted an example of LDS doctrine that specifically defines black/dark skin as a curse by the Mormon God. Your tired ploy of making incorrect statements based on nothing while failing to answer the question asked, is, as I've stated with factual data you failed to address, your motive, which is to post outright lies that have no basis in fact.

To counter your incorrect claims, I offer you the following which are so black and white and proves you so conclusively wrong you must have some rational explanation for deriving your conclusion... unless... I'm wrong and you are not a pathological liar. Please give us you take on the following:

http://mormonthink.com/blackweb.htm

Doctrine supported by LDS Scriptures
Scriptures
2 Nephi 5: 21

'And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people, the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.'
Alma 3: 6

'And the skins of the Lamanites were dark, according to the mark which was set upon their fathers, which was a curse upon them because of their transgression and their rebellion against their brethren, who consisted of Nephi, Jacob and Joseph, and Sam, who were just and holy men.'
2 Nephi 30: 6

"...their scales of darkness shall begin to fall from their eyes; and many generations shall not pass away among them, save they shall be a white and a delightsome people."
NOTE: THE TERM 'WHITE' WAS CHANGED TO 'PURE' IN 1981.
3 Nephi 2:15

"And their curse was taken from them, and their skin became white like unto the Nephites."
Jacob 3: 5, 8-9

5 Behold, the Lamanites your brethren, whom ye hate because of their filthiness and the cursing which hath come upon their skins, are more righteous than you; for they have not forgotten the commandment of the Lord, which was given unto our father—that they should have save it were one wife, and concubines they should have none, and there should not be whoredoms committed among them.

8 O my brethren, I fear that unless ye shall repent of your sins that their skins will be whiter than yours, when ye shall be brought with them before the throne of God.

9 Wherefore, a commandment I give unto you, which is the word of God, that ye revile no more against them because of the darkness of their skins; neither shall ye revile against them because of their filthiness; but ye shall remember your own filthiness, and remember that their filthiness came because of their fathers.
1 Nephi 12:23

23 And it came to pass that I beheld, after they had dwindled in unbelief they became a dark, and loathsome, and a filthy people, full of idleness and all manner of abominations.
1 Nephi 13:15

15 And I beheld the Spirit of the Lord, that it was upon the Gentiles, and they did prosper and obtain the land for their inheritance; and I beheld that they were white, and exceedingly fair and beautiful, like unto my people before they were slain.

Mormon 5:15

15 And also that the seed of this people may more fully believe his gospel, which shall go forth unto them from the Gentiles; for this people shall be scattered, and shall become a dark, a filthy, and a loathsome people, beyond the description of that which ever hath been amongst us, yea, even that which hath been among the Lamanites, and this because of their unbelief and idolatry.
Moses 7:8
8 For behold, the Lord shall curse the land with much heat, and the barrenness thereof shall go forth forever; and there was a blackness came upon all the children of Canaan, that they were despised among all people.
Moses 7:22

And Enoch also beheld the residue of the people which were the sons of Adam; and they were a mixture of all the seed of Adam save it was the seed of Cain, for the seed of Cain were black, and had not place among them.

Still waiting for your response Consig, as you've supposedly concluded that the "curse" of Cain was not based on skin color. Please enlighten me Consig, as I'm absolutely positive bcspace will flee this thread without addressing any of the factual information I've posted.