Maklelan - A romantic incentive

[_harmony]

It is where I live, but I am not a lawyer (thank god). Educate me.

If the marriage is predicated on the love of two individuals, that respect each other, and work at their marriage, then membership in a church isn't going to matter one way or the other.

Of course, I don't live in Utah, so your mileage may vary, if you do.

[_Maxrep]

Honestly, I (obviously) have no idea concerning his motive for joining the church.

I don't think one should necessarily discount the possibility that it was because of a perceived divine revelation that the Church is true. Being smart and educated doesn't necessarily mean that one wouldn't join a religion unless there was a romantic interest involved (even if that religion has a lot of difficulties in its origins).

But who knows.

I don't have any more information about his introduction to the church than you do. I am not assigning a motive so much as stating what the circumstances were.

After many many years of observing the existing church community and contrasting this community against new converts, I have come to a pretty solid conclusion that we only share the gospel downhill. This means we do not convert or even attempt to convert our social, economic, or educational peers. We do not proselyte to our neighbors, our coworkers, other parents our children attend school with or play soccer with.

Those who we will share the gospel with must be a couple of rungs or more beneath us on the social ladder. An individual without an education, solid income, or a strong social network, lacks the measure of success that would be necessary to intimidate a church member. When a member shares the gospel in this fashion, they have all the leverage. This scenario is similar in ways to an authority figure addressing a young person. It is all about the perception of power. If a member invites an individual to church, who is clearly beneath their own socio-economic standing, the member has wagered nothing. If this members invitation gets declined, there is no loss, simply because the member had nothing on the table so to speak.

Back to Mak...My impression of him is that he is not socially wanting. He also is an intelligent guy, educated. Bottom line is we don't convert guys like Mak. Maklelan could not go out and convert his equal.....no he could not! But a girl could

[_Maxrep]

Maybe another way to look at this is the following hypothetical situation:

If we were to turn back the clock 1000 separate times, and remove the LDS love interest variable, Mak would turn down the Mormon option each and every time.

[_Quasimodo]

It is where I live, but I am not a lawyer (thank god). Educate me.

If the marriage is predicated on the love of two individuals, that respect each other, and work at their marriage, then membership in a church isn't going to matter one way or the other.

Of course, I don't live in Utah, so your mileage may vary, if you do.

I don't live in Utah, either. I did once. I was just talking about the legalities of divorce. While what you said is very true, I think that people that can't overcome the differences in their beliefs might be better off separating rather than living a miserable life.

[_maklelan]

Some time ago Mak was asked if he was involved with an LDS woman while investigating the church. I don't believe he responded.

My purpose for bringing up this item is not tabloid curiosity. As others speculated, a young intelligent educated man, certainly does not hitch himself to the Mormon faith from looking into the LDS belief system. That may have occurred many decades ago before an open market of information about the church was readily available, and those individuals during earlier times get a free pass in my book.

An inlaw of mine, 35 years ago, attended a church dance as a nonmember. He laughs about it now, but does say that was his point of conversion - the dance.

Mak, take this as a left handed compliment :)

I think I've discussed this a few times in the past. It was a relationship with a girl that got me initially interested in Mormonism, but she didn't know about it, and we broke up and she moved out of state before I ever took any steps toward investigating the Church. She then got engaged and married, and when I was in the MTC a year after my baptism she got pregnant. Four months after giving birth she was killed in a car accident. So, yes, there was a girl who was instrumental in my conversion, but no, romantic motivations had nothing to do with my decision to join the Church.

EDIT: I just discovered that her widower passed away four years ago. Bizarre.

[_Gadianton]

I don't think one should necessarily discount the possibility that it was because of a perceived divine revelation that the Church is true. Being smart and educated doesn't necessarily mean that one wouldn't join a religion unless there was a romantic interest involved (even if that religion has a lot of difficulties in its origins).

One should not rule out the possibility but the possibility absolutely should be discounted. There is a reason why missionaries are encouraged to seek out people who are in some kind of life transition or crisis, and that's because they aren't really thinking straight during those times and are more likely to be deceived.

[_ludwigm]

There is a reason why missionaries are encouraged to seek out people who are in some kind of life transition or crisis, and that's because they aren't really thinking straight during those times and are more likely to be deceived.

I was on a mission (no, not LDS, it was a military thing) and I had no contact with my family for that 18 months. My wife had a severe illness. Then she had met the mishies.
If I were at home, I would have driven them away. (The better expression were "“F” off".)

And here we are.

[_RockSlider]

Maybe another way to look at this is the following hypothetical situation:

If we were to turn back the clock 1000 separate times, and remove the LDS love interest variable, Mak would turn down the Mormon option each and every time.

Naaan .... Mak, not being all that interested in girls has chosen celibacy. Mak is a True Blue devoted member.

[_Maxrep]

Some time ago Mak was asked if he was involved with an LDS woman while investigating the church. I don't believe he responded.

My purpose for bringing up this item is not tabloid curiosity. As others speculated, a young intelligent educated man, certainly does not hitch himself to the Mormon faith from looking into the LDS belief system. That may have occurred many decades ago before an open market of information about the church was readily available, and those individuals during earlier times get a free pass in my book.

An inlaw of mine, 35 years ago, attended a church dance as a nonmember. He laughs about it now, but does say that was his point of conversion - the dance.

Mak, take this as a left handed compliment :)

I think I've discussed this a few times in the past. It was a relationship with a girl that got me initially interested in Mormonism, but she didn't know about it, and we broke up and she moved out of state before I ever took any steps toward investigating the Church. She then got engaged and married, and when I was in the MTC a year after my baptism she got pregnant. Four months after giving birth she was killed in a car accident. So, yes, there was a girl who was instrumental in my conversion, but no, romantic motivations had nothing to do with my decision to join the Church.

EDIT: I just discovered that her widower passed away four years ago. Bizarre.

Well, I've never heard your story about entering the church before. For some reason I thought you joined after college, and that's why I kept referring to you as being educated, and the corresponding difficulty in converting educated people.

It kind of sounds like you joined as a teen? If that's the case, then that puts you into a separate category from a college convert, and you're not such a rare bird.

There may be a natural tendency to emphasize some aspects of our conversion narrative, while not others, but I would not discount this young lady you had a relationship with that introduced you to the church. Did you ever attend church or church activities with her?

[_maklelan]

Well, I've never heard your story about entering the church before. For some reason I thought you joined after college, and that's why I kept referring to you as being educated, and the corresponding difficulty in converting educated people.

I joined after being kicked out of college, but I was not uneducated by any stretch of the imagination. I was just lazy.

It kind of sounds like you joined as a teen? If that's the case, then that puts you into a separate category from a college convert, and you're not such a rare bird.

I was 20.

There may be a natural tendency to emphasize some aspects of our conversion narrative, while not others, but I would not discount this young lady you had a relationship with that introduced you to the church. Did you ever attend church or church activities with her?

I attended sacrament meeting with her once a few months before I started investigating.