Secular folks should worry.

[MG 2.0]

Regarding Stephen Meyer, I highly recommend the absolute dismantling Charles Marshall did in Science, reviewing Meyer's last book.

Not sure what other articles are in this issue, but it's likely worth the $15 for a full print copy if you don't have University access, or someone who has OpenAthens you can ask a favor of.

The whole thing helps illustrate how dependent Meyer (and his followers) are on scientific illiteracy, and obliviousness to current scholarship. It all boils down to what they think the theories are, and what they think the consensus is regarding specific aspects and components of theories, rather than what the theories actually are.

The only reasons Meyer's embarrassing pseudoscience is given primacy over things like flat earth theory, or ancient aliens theory, is flat earth theory and ancient aliens aren't manufactured wedge issues... yet.


ETA: Forgot to link to Marshall. https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.1244515

And then you have the rest of the story…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gOl_xTduZ8

Full context. Always useful.

Regards,
MG

[Doctor Steuss]

Regarding Stephen Meyer, I highly recommend the absolute dismantling Charles Marshall did in Science, reviewing Meyer's last book.

Not sure what other articles are in this issue, but it's likely worth the $15 for a full print copy if you don't have University access, or someone who has OpenAthens you can ask a favor of.

The whole thing helps illustrate how dependent Meyer (and his followers) are on scientific illiteracy, and obliviousness to current scholarship. It all boils down to what they think the theories are, and what they think the consensus is regarding specific aspects and components of theories, rather than what the theories actually are.

The only reasons Meyer's embarrassing pseudoscience is given primacy over things like flat earth theory, or ancient aliens theory, is flat earth theory and ancient aliens aren't manufactured wedge issues... yet.


ETA: Forgot to link to Marshall. https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.1244515

And then you have the rest of the story…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gOl_xTduZ8

Full context. Always useful.

Regards,
MG

Indeed, full context is always useful. Which is why I appreciate the thoroughly sourced and referenced dismantling Marshall published in Science, rather than Meyer's perpetuation of pseudoscience, and reliance on outdated information and misrepresentation of theories.

It's not surprising that Meyer's fuller response (which I wonder why you chose the YouTube video, rather than Meyer's 4 part response published by EVN) relies on a doubling down on promoting mangled misunderstanding, and scientific illiteracy, flailing about for any perceived opportunity for a ham-fisted attempt to promote the god of the gaps.

[Schreech]

The problem is that GenZ and their parents, and their parents…have been indoctrinated with Darwinism to the exclusion of other ideas that have merit. So then we have a generation going into the world thinking that theism is silly. That, in turn, impacts their worldview in regards to government, culture, morality, etc.

Regards,
MG

Ooof, watching a double cultist who has never experienced life outside the small, conservative Mormon bubble he has made for himself try to lecture other people on how the world works is endlessly entertaining. The impotence, the ignorance, the arrogance, the irony, the endless references to his imaginary "lurkers" that TOTALLY agree with his myopic, incoherent views, the total lack of any self-awareness, the cheering on of wannabe fascists out of conditioned fear and lack of life experiences, the inability to learn from people who are more intelligent and more experienced (which seems to be everyone at this point) because they don't share is particular shallow views on LDS/conservative folklore...I love it.

Its the same, blind, frightened boomer energy that drives Mr ajax A(dolf)H(itler) down in spirit paradise to endlessly make a fool of himself by parroting easily debunked talking points he has picked up from Mormon and/or right-wing propaganda...completely impervious to reality or logic but so fun to watch, Dunning-Kruger personified.

[MG 2.0]

…I wonder why you chose the YouTube video…

Not a video link. It’s an audio link. I would imagine you might be able to get video but I went with the other.

I’ll leave it there for others to listen and learn. I would expect you to have your own commentary of outright dismissal of Meyer’s views.

As it is, at least as a lay person that is open to ‘God’, I think he does a more than adequate job of presenting his side of the story in both links that have been provided. I encourage others to listen, learn, and do their own thinking.

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

Ooof, watching a double cultist who has never experienced life outside the small, conservative Mormon bubble he has made for himself try to lecture other people on how the world works is endlessly entertaining. The impotence, the ignorance, the arrogance, the irony, the endless references to his imaginary "lurkers" that TOTALLY agree with his myopic, incoherent views, the total lack of any self-awareness, the cheering on of wannabe fascists out of conditioned fear and lack of life experiences, the inability to learn from people who are more intelligent and more experienced (which seems to be everyone at this point) because they don't share is particular shallow views on LDS/conservative folklore...I love it.

Its the same, blind, frightened boomer energy that drives Mr ajax A(dolf)H(itler) down in spirit paradise to endlessly make a fool of himself by parroting easily debunked talking points he has picked up from Mormon and/or right-wing propaganda...completely impervious to reality or logic but so fun to watch, Dunning-Kruger personified.

You’re a silly man.

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

OK. I gotta jump back in on this and then hopefully take a breather.

Doc’s statement is false. I listened to the full section in question. It goes on max ten to fifteen minutes, if that. The longer breadth and depth of the ‘discussion’ wasn’t a discussion. It was simply going through strands of Utah State curriculum and clarifying and/or excising sections/words and approving or taking off amendments.

A necessary and important work to do. It wasn’t a long winded discussion on creationism vs. evolution and/ or uniformitarianism, etc. One board member had a question about entertaining an amendment which stated the theory of Catastrophism.

To bring into the curriculum an alternate view. Sheesh.

Catastrophism-
1. The doctrine that major changes in the earth's crust result from sudden catastrophes, such as the impact of a large meteor, rather than from gradual evolutionary processes.
2. The doctrine that changes in the earth's fauna and flora result from major catastrophic events that cause the die-off of many organisms and are followed by the appearance of new types of organisms.

And that was it. The Bible received a passing mention.

NO BIG DEAL.

The argument made here on this thread is that this ‘back and forth’ discussion on an amendment should never have even been a point of discussion while these folks were involved in creating final curriculum strands and lessons.

And then comparisons were made with ludicrous examples that have absolutely nothing to do with scientific endeavor and/or theories.

As I said earlier…crazy town.

Some folks here…secular humanist progressive liberals want to shut down alternative points of view because they don’t fit their worldview. RATHER than allowing for discussion and resolution.

THAT, folks, is dangerous.

There was a whole lot of hay being made out of nothing by Doc and others. That is ANOTHER lame strategy that is practiced ad nauseam around these parts.

I’ve learned SO much about the minds of ex Mormons as I’ve participated on this thread. Folks will lie, create strawmen, do hatchet jobs with context, and misinterpret (purposfully methinks) and misrepresent…and just be plain dishonest.

Again, crazy town.

I again invite others and those that are lurking to go back and read the thread or browse through it and see for yourself what I’m talking about.

This place IS crazy town. Truth is a rare commodity it seems.

OK. Now I think I’ll take a bit of a break and check back at a later time.

I expect I’ve ruffled a few feathers.

Go DeSantis!!! Protect parental rights!!!

Disney, shame on you.

G’nite.

Regards,
MG

All of that? Complete B.S..

And I stick to it.

Of course you have your own way of seeing the world. In your mind that would almost force you to look at ‘the other’ as being full of B.S. as you say. And then get rather emotional about it. I can see you literally pounding your keyboard in frustration.

Deal with it, you arrogant __________________ .

Not everyone is a nontheist. We OF COURSE are going to see things differently.

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

Alien pyramid builders aren't disrupting worldviews nor affecting the quality of education in our country because they aren't in your book of semitic myths.

Again, you're full of crap.

Are you putting Stephen Meyer into the same category as those that promote “alien pyramid builders”? Or are you simply doing the false analogy thingie?

When referring to Utah State curriculum I think referring students to the writings/ideas of Stephen Meyer is NOT the same as getting into pseudo science. That you are making this comparison is silly.

In a sense, you’re ‘full of crap’.

Just throwin’ it right back atcha.

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

MG is calling people "silly" if they don't match his belief system.

Essentially, this is what you’re doing.

Have you listened to the Michael Shermer podcast I linked to? Do you think Stephen Meyer’s arguments “silly” and without merit?

Do you think it appropriate that his views be presented along with orthodox Darwinism in Utah State curriculum and that of other states?

Why or why not?

Is it appropriate that students are only being presented with one scientific theory and/ or point of view?

Does this impact their worldview? Does that matter?

I don’t expect that you will answer my questions, but I thought I’d throw them your way.

Regards,
MG

*bump for Marcus.

[MG 2.0]

From another thread…applies here.

I think posters here tacked down the issue of what faith is - it’s really a matter of trust. And in order to maintain one’s trust in the “truth” claims of Mormonism and other religions, you simply have to make the conscious choice to mistrust people who have a better handle on whatever factual subjects than you do, and trust people who reaffirm your desire to believe in something that can’t be reliably verified or is outright bananas. You have to engage in wordplay, strain at gnats while ignoring the cureloms, and redefine reality to suit your narrative.

Mormonism is obviously false, but in order to keep the faith, to keep your trust in something that’s obviously false you have to move the goal posts and dick around as described above. The fact that after twenty years MG shows up, yet again, to a thread where people have put a lot of effort into contesting his mistaken notions, and starts spewing B.S. again, B.S. that has been repeatedly debunked, just goes to show you that he’s not a serious man.

- Doc

It is a matter of trust. The thing is, many people would question whether or not to trust you and your “better handle” on “factual subjects” than those that may take the position that a theistic view of the world and its purposes/creation is as a matter of ‘fact’ a reasonable position to take.

For example, on another thread I’ve mentioned Stephen Meyer (this one) and linked to two interviews he has participated in with atheists/Darwinists. His is an important voice.

Trust will vary from person to person in the facts at their disposal. At best, we will have folks agree to disagree. At worst we will see personal attacks and take downs based on in innuendo, incomplete information, and twisted logic.

I trust the science. I also have reason to trust in God. That’s where we differ. I am perfectly willing to let you take your course even though I believe you are gravely mistaken. That is why I show up here. I believe others/lurkers ought to be able to make up their own minds in relation to differing points of view as they might be encouraged to go out and study MORE deeply and take time to look at ALL the information available.

GenZ, I’m afraid, is being somewhat hoodwinked into a purely materialistic and nontheistic worldview by the ‘powers that be’. Folks like Doc and others that promote a secular humanistic progressive liberal worldview.

I EXPECT to be told that I’m “full of crap”. Just another cancellation technique.

Regards
MG

[MG 2.0]

…Meyer's 4 part response published by EVN)…
*snip personal opinion of the same…

Link?

Regards,
MG