Secular folks should worry.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

https://floodlit.org/a/a609/

A longtime teacher at Edison Elementary School was charged on Wednesday with sexually abusing a now 13-year-old student when she was in second grade.

…

Jared Tichy was an active LDS church member during at least some of his alleged crimes. He served an LDS mission to Nebraska in 1998-2000 and was married in an LDS temple.

How many times do we have to point this out to MG before he admits his approach is flawed, and his fear of the Other is misplaced? His handwringing over GenZ and progressives should be in-group focused.

Is this civil society?

- Doc

[Res Ipsa]

Alien pyramid builders aren't disrupting worldviews nor affecting the quality of education in our country because they aren't in your book of semitic myths.

Again, you're full of crap.

Are you putting Stephen Meyer into the same category as those that promote “alien pyramid builders”? Or are you simply doing the false analogy thingie?

When referring to Utah State curriculum I think referring students to the writings/ideas of Stephen Meyer is NOT the same as getting into pseudo science. That you are making this comparison is silly.

In a sense, you’re ‘full of crap’.

Just throwin’ it right back atcha.

Regards,
MG

You’re talking about the proponent of the pseudoscience of intelligent design, right? The guy who helped found the portion of the Discovery Institute that promotes intelligent design, right. The guy whose degrees are in philosophy, right?

You want him taught in science classes?

You really are an extremist.

[honorentheos]

And I stick to it.

Of course you have your own way of seeing the world. In your mind that would almost force you to look at ‘the other’ as being full of B.S. as you say. And then get rather emotional about it. I can see you literally pounding your keyboard in frustration.

Deal with it, you arrogant __________________ .

Not everyone is a nontheist. We OF COURSE are going to see things differently.

Regards,
MG

MG, it doesn't matter if a person is a theist or otherwise. The objective facts are the board member was interjecting anti-science religious and political material into the standards throughout for the better part of 8 hours. Your dismissal stated it was a 10 minute blip where the Bible was barely mentioned. You comment was wrong and your position is BS.

[Moksha]

[quoteThat was a weird response. Are you sure you linked to the YouTube video you meant to?

What did that have to do with Stephen Meyer and his conversation with Michael Shermer and what might ACTUALLY be appropriate for inclusion in Utah State curriculum standards?

Regards,
MG

I thought you might appreciate some beautiful religious music. Didn't want to dwell on the idea of including old-time superstitions in a science-based curriculum.

[honorentheos]

Alien pyramid builders aren't disrupting worldviews nor affecting the quality of education in our country because they aren't in your book of semitic myths.

Again, you're full of crap.

Are you putting Stephen Meyer into the same category as those that promote “alien pyramid builders”? Or are you simply doing the false analogy thingie?

You understand that the idea aliens built the pyramids doesn't belong in schools because it fails to meet a threshold for claims that deserve equal consideration in the standards. What defines that threshold? As repeatedly pointed out in the eight hour meeting, established science isn't about competing dogmas. It's about process and prediction. Evolution is based on observed evidence, accurate predictions, and testable theories that accurately predict both results from experimentation and what may be found where in the fossil record. Evolution is compatible and highly aligned with other natural science evidence from related fields. Biologists make use of it successfully in multiple fields including medicine. It's not a static belief that one gets to reject because one prefers the story with the tiger. A competing theory such as the proposition the Book of Genesis is more than a myth has so much heavy lifting to do it's on par with alien pyramid builders and flat earth if you look to it for predictive explanatory power.

When referring to Utah State curriculum I think referring students to the writings/ideas of Stephen Meyer is NOT the same as getting into pseudo science. That you are making this comparison is silly.

What is Stephen Meyer putting forward that is repeatable, predictively useful, and complimentary across disciplines?

[honorentheos]

https://youtu.be/rFxu7NEoKC8

Here, MG. Simple short video that points out vestigial anatomy in your own body that only makes sense as a result of the evolution of species through natural selection. We are not the composition of a divine architect but rather that of a perpetual remodeling flip project.

Adding to this:
A subject of high importance: the recurrent laryngeal nerve has been one of the best cases for evolution due to the alarmingly obscure detour its route is forced to take. It begins in the brain and its endpoint is the larynx, though it does not go straight from point A to point B, as any decent engineer would have ensured. Instead, the nerve bypasses point A, goes down into the thorax, wraps around the right subclavian artery, then completes its journey back up into the larynx. Pretty long detour, right? Right.

However, in giraffes, this detour turns into a 15-foot (4.6-meter) circuit.

In fish-like ancestors, there would have been no such detour. The nerve would travel directly from the brain, past the heart, and to the gills as it does with most modern-day fish. However, since the neck began elongating and the heart began lowering into the chest, the nerve became caught on the wrong side of the heart. As the nerve stretched, natural selection gradually lengthened it in tiny increments, leaving it in the circuitous route we now see.

As Richard Dawkins put it, "evolution cannot go back to the drawing board. Evolution has no foresight."

https://futurism.com/evolutianary-proof ... al-nerve-2

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

https://youtu.be/rFxu7NEoKC8

Here, MG. Simple short video that points out vestigial anatomy in your own body that only makes sense as a result of the evolution of species through natural selection. We are not the composition of a divine architect but rather that of a perpetual remodeling flip project.

Adding to this:
A subject of high importance: the recurrent laryngeal nerve has been one of the best cases for evolution due to the alarmingly obscure detour its route is forced to take. It begins in the brain and its endpoint is the larynx, though it does not go straight from point A to point B, as any decent engineer would have ensured. Instead, the nerve bypasses point A, goes down into the thorax, wraps around the right subclavian artery, then completes its journey back up into the larynx. Pretty long detour, right? Right.

However, in giraffes, this detour turns into a 15-foot (4.6-meter) circuit.

In fish-like ancestors, there would have been no such detour. The nerve would travel directly from the brain, past the heart, and to the gills as it does with most modern-day fish. However, since the neck began elongating and the heart began lowering into the chest, the nerve became caught on the wrong side of the heart. As the nerve stretched, natural selection gradually lengthened it in tiny increments, leaving it in the circuitous route we now see.

As Richard Dawkins put it, "evolution cannot go back to the drawing board. Evolution has no foresight."

https://futurism.com/evolutianary-proof ... al-nerve-2

The very fact you felt the need to post that for the Apex Boomer shows you what’s wrong with #1, Mental Muppet, and #2 idiot Americans. No matter how much you offer up factual reality to these people you just get:



- Doc

[honorentheos]

Yeah. Church is nothing but Biblecon where the superfans know the fiction of other cons is just that, but can't accept a story about a 600 year old guy building a boat to hold productive individual representatives of every land species while some super being murdered everyone else for not doing what super being wanted might not be "science".

[MG 2.0]

Are you putting Stephen Meyer into the same category as those that promote “alien pyramid builders”? Or are you simply doing the false analogy thingie?

When referring to Utah State curriculum I think referring students to the writings/ideas of Stephen Meyer is NOT the same as getting into pseudo science. That you are making this comparison is silly.

In a sense, you’re ‘full of crap’.

Just throwin’ it right back atcha.

Regards,
MG

You’re talking about the proponent of the pseudoscience of intelligent design, right? The guy who helped found the portion of the Discovery Institute that promotes intelligent design, right. The guy whose degrees are in philosophy, right?

You want him taught in science classes?

Anything that meets the rigors of scientific investigation, yes.

Closed minded are we?

Are you a strict/orthodox Darwinist?

Nowadays would that be considered ‘extremist’?

The jury is out when it comes to Darwin’s Theory.

Why the angst expressed in regards to Stephen Meyer?

Does an expert need to have a certain worldview in order to be on your ‘listen to’ list?

What particular issues do you have with the conversation with Shermer and/or Marshall? As it was, I think Meyer holds up very well.

The problem, again, is when a generation or two (three or four now?) is taught a certain ‘philosophy’ based on a particular scientific view/theory which is still in flux. Minds and hearts are affected for better or worse.

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

And I stick to it.

Of course you have your own way of seeing the world. In your mind that would almost force you to look at ‘the other’ as being full of B.S. as you say. And then get rather emotional about it. I can see you literally pounding your keyboard in frustration.

Deal with it, you arrogant __________________ .

Not everyone is a nontheist. We OF COURSE are going to see things differently.

Regards,
MG

MG, it doesn't matter if a person is a theist or otherwise. The objective facts are the board member was interjecting anti-science religious and political material into the standards throughout for the better part of 8 hours. Your dismissal stated it was a 10 minute blip where the Bible was barely mentioned. You comment was wrong and your position is B.S..

I had listened to the short blip Doc linked to in a post. It didn’t say what he said the whole zoom meeting was about. I checked it out further but admittedly did not listen to the whole thing. I did listen to the section that was in question. Ten or fifteen minutes. I didn’t see the board member’s input and questions as unreasonable in a situation where different points of view were supposedly welcome.

You guys are making out someone who has an honest point of view to be a “nut job”.

Arrogance.

I would imagine you’re not a Stephen Meyer fan either.

Regards,
MG