...If the plates were available and were used/proven as evidence for the Book of Mormon being the work of God we would no longer have the kind of faith that matters. We would have direct knowledge. The other things you then refer to wouldn’t require any real faith to obey/do because we would have more or less perfect knowledge that God exists as the LDS Church teaches and that the commandments are actually given by God for our eternal welfare and happiness....
The plates and their verification of having come from God would negate the Plan of Salvation in the sense that humanity would be under direct obligation to accept and follow the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Plates=God...
Hmmm...so plates from god, but Book of Mormon still nonverifiable. I think you're more likely to get interpretations of your god as demonic, or dishonest at best.
And you really think that if the plates showed up, the interpretation of the writing would match Smith's? Kind of like how the papyrus interpretations leading to the book of abraham were a match??!!
..As you know, the Book of Mormon, more than any other scripture, teaches the doctrine of Christ in regards to the Atonement in greater depth and understanding than any other book of scripture...
No, many don't know that. Can you please explain? And provide proof?
I'm interested in figuring out the truth to the extent I can, realizing that there are serious limitations on my access to the evidence I need. Yes, if the plates really were what Smith claimed them to be, that would cause me to draw different conclusions about the LDS church than my current conclusions. But that involves assessing all the evidence we have about the plates. And the totality of the evidence about the plates is that, whatever they were, they weren't what Smith claimed they were.
Fair enough. You have your views. I have mine. I think it is through the expression of all viewpoints that we can learn from each other and others can assess the validity and/or sensibleness of what various parties have to say.
I, for one, appreciate honest dialogue. I learn. Others learn. We’re all the better for it.
Also, I will be the first to admit that I’m always in the ‘journey of faith’ mode/seat. Lots of questions and things that I “see through a glass darkly”. But for many reasons I give the benefit of a doubt to the church and its mission and message.
For me, it fits in…generally…with an expanded view of the cosmos/meaning/purpose.
Sometimes, admittedly, the details can be messy. But so was Monet, in a sense.
In the larger picture, to my understanding of the world around me, the plates and angels make more sense than most of the other stuff out there. Including agnosticism and/or atheism. Although I can see how folks can move that direction.
What makes the world so interesting is that there are so many views and positions to be had. I find that very supportive of the whole concept of free will and agency to choose.
Regards,
MG
I would suggest that the entire notion of “giving the benefit of the doubt” to the church and its supporters is the antithesis of seeking truth. It sounds much more like seeking reassurance.
he/him we all just have to live through it,
holding each other’s hands.
Oh, so now you know the mind of God? This is your backward rationalization of facts that don't fit the narrative you want to believe. It's pure fabrication that purports to know why your God does what he does.
Look at my response (boldface) to tgriffey on previous page of thread.
Regards,
MG
It’s Nonresponsive to what I said. You have no idea of how people would react if the plates were available for inspection today. It’s a rationalization based on pure imagination.
he/him we all just have to live through it,
holding each other’s hands.
Huh? I thought faith in Jesus Christ came first, not the plates. You mean you worship the plates? The plates supersede the restoration of the priesthood? The restoration of the organization of the original church? Prophecy? Modern prophets?
You really should think through your arguments before you make them.
M.G. is echoing the exact things that the Mopologetic leadership has been saying for years. DCP, Midgley, Hamblin, etc. have all said repeatedly that the whole edifice will crumble if the plates aren’t real. Jesus’ atonement; the sermon on the mount; the doctrine of eternal progression—all of that gets tossed if the plates were phony.
It’s a silly argument. Here we have MG 2.0 trying to make an evidence based case for genuine plates while arguing that sound evidence would subvert the entire plan of salvation. Meanwhile, the entire system is supposed to be based on faith, not evidence. Makes one wonder just who needs convincing.
he/him we all just have to live through it,
holding each other’s hands.
..As you know, the Book of Mormon, more than any other scripture, teaches the doctrine of Christ in regards to the Atonement in greater depth and understanding than any other book of scripture...
No, many don't know that. Can you please explain? And provide proof?
Please, no. He’ll just post a bunch of nonsense scriptures and then his testimonkey.
MG wrote:Gosh, the persecution became so intense he and Emma had to hide the plates in a barrel of beans and move to a different location where they were less likely to undergo constant surveillance.
As an example of the kind of thing I'm talking about: Yeah, they had to hide the plates in a barrel and move to Harmony. But when things got rough in Harmony and they moved to New York to Joseph Smith's parents, how did he hide the plates?
He didn't! The angel Moroni moved them!
Social distancing has likely already begun to flatten the curve...Continue to research good antivirals and vaccine candidates. Make everyone wear masks. -- J.D. Vance
you're right.