Sorry, I meant explain why you posted it in relation to the thread.
- Doc
Oh, i see. I posted it because of Res ipsa's comment here:
Beaten and raped children do not need the atonement to be saved from being victims of beatings and rape. Being a victim is not a sin.
What you seem to be dancing around but unwilling to admit is that Christ’s suffering and sacrifice is not sufficient for the redemption of sins. Innocent children also must be beaten and raped for salvation to occur. Beating, rape, torture, and murder of children are all necessary parts of the plan that Jesus Christ himself presented at the council in heaven, and you voted for that plan. Because mortals cannot be free agents if God does not send innocent children to earth knowing that they will be beaten, tortured, raped and murdered. Because unless children are beaten, tortured raped, and murdered, it’s so easy not to sin that you call it being handed salvation on a silver platter.
Take your own advice upthread and grow a pair: own up to the logical consequences of your own religious claims. Have the courage to admit that you sat in the council of heaven and knowingly voted for a plan that included beating, raping, torturing and murdering children. Then argue that the atonement somehow requires and makes all that peachy keen.
The short story premise is that an innocent child is allowed to be tortured to ensure the wellbeing of the city. It smacked a little too close to the complacency exhibited here by one poster, when he said that god allows Mormons to call child abusers to positions of authority that allow them access to children, in order to give the abuser a chance to be caught and repent. And thereby saved. By sacrificing his child victims.
The idea of voting in heaven for a plan like this is very close to the story's concept.
Thanks, Marcus! I was definitely too stupid to see the allegory for what Mormons believe.
Yes. I think the immorality of Mormonism as an ethical and philosophical salve is evil. The Plan requires its believers to be active abbettors in the most heinous crimes conceivable. And for stupid hicks to so blithely shrug their stupid hick shoulders is just so outrageous, that I lack the loquaciousness to even contextualize my disgust and further disappointment- especially so for the stupid hick adults who perpetuate this evil for generations in a very real way in this very real world.
You probably will not really appreciate my response.
Regards,
MG
You seem to think hope is a guarantee. Hope is trying to change something that doesn't exist in the now to something that will exist in the future.
In many cases, yes. Unless we as societies and individuals can make a difference. That’s why I chose teaching as a career. I’m sure you and others here have done your part throughout your lives to lessen the amount of suffering in whatever way you can/could. I very much doubt that God would want us to sit idly by and not do what we can to alleviate suffering. That’s what the church and gospel is all about. I am appreciative of my opportunities to serve in a small way in my ward.
You claim that you are grounded in the divine assurance that all will be made equal at some point. This seems to paralyze any type of constructive steps forward. As this thread demonstrates.
As I’ve said there are ALL kinds of ways to alleviate suffering and serve. Get out and do it if you’re not already. Here’s one place to start to just get your feet wet.
Of course if you feel qualified to help at a deeper level with severe issues such as child rape, abuse, etc., then do that. It takes a special person to really get into the trenches.
God smiles upon those that help and serve His little ones. Jesus taught by example.
...One thing we do have in common and that is the sadness we feel as we see children abused and neglected. I spent thirty years of my life working with and teaching children. To know that many of these precious souls are damaged goods because of the actions of evil and sick people makes my heart sick.
Is that a new opinion on your part? Because your comments are on record are that you are okay with your god allowing abusers to be calld as church leaders where they have the opportunity to continue abusing, just sothey can be caught, repent, and be forgiven. It's a disgusting take.
As I expressed earlier to you, as a person, I’m sure you, Marcus, Doc, drumdude, Scratch, tgriffy, and others that have have participated on this thread are awesome people and good parents to your children and outstanding members of your own communities.
Lol. No, you have not expressed that at all. You've said many extremely mean-spirited things.
In this thread I earlier expressed these sentiments to Res Ipsa. If you’d like me to take them back in your case for whatever reason, I will. Let me know. Otherwise my sentiments stand as being my thoughts towards you and others.
You seem to think hope is a guarantee. Hope is trying to change something that doesn't exist in the now to something that will exist in the future.
In many cases, yes. Unless we as societies and individuals can make a difference. That’s why I chose teaching as a career. I’m sure you and others here have done your part throughout your lives to lessen the amount of suffering in whatever way you can/could. I very much doubt that God would want us to sit idly by and not do what we can to alleviate suffering. That’s what the church and gospel is all about. I am appreciative of my opportunities to serve in a small way in my ward.
You claim that you are grounded in the divine assurance that all will be made equal at some point. This seems to paralyze any type of constructive steps forward. As this thread demonstrates.
As I’ve said there are ALL kinds of ways to alleviate suffering and serve. Get out and do it if you’re not already. Here’s one place to start to just get your feet wet.
Of course if you feel qualified to help at a deeper level with severe issues such as child rape, abuse, etc., then do that. It takes a special person to really get into the trenches.
God smiles upon those that help and serve His little ones. Jesus taught by example.
Regards,
MG
I also spent over 30 years teaching and your view proposes unfalsifiable hope that is demonstrated over and over again. You consistently fein to the unknown or the view through the glass is dark when pressed on the issues in this thread. It creates a frozen view of progression because you think horror through the fallen world is necessary . That is just repulsive to me. If I placed my kids through this type of nonsense that you propose I would check into the nearest mental health facility.
Oh, i see. I posted it because of Res ipsa's comment here:
The short story premise is that an innocent child is allowed to be tortured to ensure the wellbeing of the city. It smacked a little too close to the complacency exhibited here by one poster, when he said that god allows Mormons to call child abusers to positions of authority that allow them access to children, in order to give the abuser a chance to be caught and repent. And thereby saved. By sacrificing his child victims.
A plan in which free agency is allowed will result in bad people doing bad things
The idea of voting in heaven for a plan like this is very close to the story's concept.
According to the scriptural accounts and teachings of leaders in our day there were a whole slew of folks in the premortal world that supported a plan by which everyone would somehow be forced to be good and not evil.
Hmm…that seems to be a plan that some folks around here might support.
But that’s definitely NOT the plan we’re living by. So would you subscribe to a plan similar to Lucifer’s? There would be no child rape or any other heinous acts.
I think the immorality of Mormonism as an ethical and philosophical salve is evil. The Plan requires its believers to be active abbettors in the most heinous crimes conceivable.
No it doesn’t. The complete opposite. Are there people that are doing stupid human tricks (nod to Letterman)? Obviously. You and others have pointed those things out. And those things should be pointed out. That doesn’t mean God wills it. But He does allow for free agency.
Man, saying that seems to be getting a bit repetitive at this point. Some here are probably getting sick and tired of the whole idea of free agency…although I hope not.
…your view proposes unfalsifiable hope that is demonstrated over and over again.
You’re right about that. But I have reason to believe not only in this life but in an existence after death. That skews my worldview in ways that a worldview that consists only of the here and now is not able to manage a coherent argument against…in the sense that they are not able to come up with a better alternative.
I’ve been trying to get folks to do just that throughout the latter part of this thread to little or no avail.
You seem to think hope is a guarantee. Hope is trying to change something that doesn't exist in the now to something that will exist in the future.
In many cases, yes. Unless we as societies and individuals can make a difference. That’s why I chose teaching as a career. I’m sure you and others here have done your part throughout your lives to lessen the amount of suffering in whatever way you can/could. I very much doubt that God would want us to sit idly by and not do what we can to alleviate suffering. That’s what the church and gospel is all about. I am appreciative of my opportunities to serve in a small way in my ward.
You claim that you are grounded in the divine assurance that all will be made equal at some point. This seems to paralyze any type of constructive steps forward. As this thread demonstrates.
As I’ve said there are ALL kinds of ways to alleviate suffering and serve. Get out and do it if you’re not already. Here’s one place to start to just get your feet wet.
Of course if you feel qualified to help at a deeper level with severe issues such as child rape, abuse, etc., then do that. It takes a special person to really get into the trenches.
God smiles upon those that help and serve His little ones. Jesus taught by example.
Regards,
MG
Yep, it’s just like buying carbon offsets. Choose the right career or volunteer at the food bank, and you’ve offset the fact that you’ve assured your salvation at the cost of the broken bodies of children.
he/him we all just have to live through it,
holding each other’s hands.
