If plates then God

[MG 2.0]

I put a lot of effort into my post to give you the long form discussion that you say you prefer.

You're welcome.

He's responding to Mg's version of god, and the Mormon god is vastly different from what most believers here agree with. In mg's world, god calls men to leadership positions so they can be caught abusing children and thereby have the opportunity to repent and go on to full celestial glory. It's an obscene and despicable position i have seen no other non-Mormon believers here express.

Doc is just responding to that.

Twice in this thread I’m calling you out on the same thing. I have never said that men are called to leadership positions on the basis so that they will later be caught abusing children.

That’s a gross misrepresentation of anything I’ve said.

You behave despicably at times.

If you folks are done talking about the plates and don’t have anything more to add I think we may be approaching the end of the discussion. Ya’ think?

I think I’ve made myself fairly clear in regards to the thoughts I’ve had to the importance the plates played in the restoration and the importance that free will plays as a part of belief. Others have pressed the necessity/importance in their mind of having the plates come forward as evidence so as to more easily believe and have no doubts, etc.

That about wraps it up. Unless folks feel like they need to continue beating a dead horse, so to speak.

It was an enlightening conversation.

Regards,
MG

[Philo Sofee]

Agreed, to an extent, but that still leaves out God doing more when he could, thus leading to needless suffering that can be prevented. It makes God look like a sadist in so many ways. It wouldn't do anything to threaten anyone's free agency if God were to step in, like Mormonism claims he does for ridiculous reasons such as a stone in a hat, or losing car keys. There has to be more important reasons than helping someone find a mere dollar bill they lost, for God to intervene, yet in the most heinous cases, God remains aloof. That appears to me to be problematic is what I am saying.

Please list 5 types of needless suffering that could be prevented if only God would step in.

1.Child rape
2. child torture
3. child starvation to death
4. child slavery
5. child beating and almost bleeding to death

to name just a few of thousands of themes with all walks of people of any age.

[Philo Sofee]

He's responding to Mg's version of god, and the Mormon god is vastly different from what most believers here agree with. In mg's world, god calls men to leadership positions so they can be caught abusing children and thereby have the opportunity to repent and go on to full celestial glory. It's an obscene and despicable position i have seen no other non-Mormon believers here express.

Doc is just responding to that.

Twice in this thread I’m calling you out on the same thing. I have never said that men are called to leadership positions on the basis so that they will later be caught abusing children.

That’s a gross misrepresentation of anything I’ve said.

You behave despicably at times.

If you folks are done talking about the plates and don’t have anything more to add I think we may be approaching the end of the discussion. Ya’ think?

I think I’ve made myself fairly clear in regards to the thoughts I’ve had to the importance the plates played in the restoration and the importance that free will plays as a part of belief. Others have pressed the necessity/importance in their mind of having the plates come forward as evidence so as to more easily believe and have no doubts, etc.

That about wraps it up. Unless folks feel like they need to continue beating a dead horse, so to speak.

It was an enlightening conversation.

Regards,
MG

You're the one who brought God into this, and Jesus Christ and his infinite atonement, and whatnot. Now that that has been shown to be equally as impossibly ludicrous as the plates, and you can't refute the logic against the added theology you wish to brainwash people with, you bow out. I get it, I really do. I used to do the exact same thing in the exact same boat you are in. The bad news, the boat is sinking and there is no repair kit.

[Marcus]

He's responding to Mg's version of god, and the Mormon god is vastly different from what most believers here agree with. In mg's world, god calls men to leadership positions so they can be caught abusing children and thereby have the opportunity to repent and go on to full celestial glory. It's an obscene and despicable position i have seen no other non-Mormon believers here express.

Doc is just responding to that.

Twice in this thread I’m calling you out on the same thing. I have never said that men are called to leadership positions on the basis so that they will later be caught abusing children.

That’s a gross misrepresentation of anything I’ve said.

You behave despicably at times.

And every time i've posted your very own words where you said exactly that:
"Member of local Bishopric jailed on sex abuse charges"

...his Bishop received a spiritual witness from God to have this man called as his counselor.

He may have. He may not have. If he did, then it goes to show...and not for the first time in history... that God calls upon the weak things of the world in order to accomplish His purposes. If, as the first article seems to be saying, the fellow may not have been in the Bishopric at the time of his misbehavior then it might be that the calling brought him to a position/place of being 'outed'. That's a good thing. As long, of course, as he hasn't been misbehaving in the meantime. It's hard to know all of the variables/factors involved. The fact is, it's good that he was caught and that he now has a chance to repent of his past misbehaviors. [/i][/b]

God had obviously already taken this man's pedophilia history into account prior to sending that special witness to the Bishop.

That's a possibility, if indeed the counselor was called through direct inspiration/revelation. That doesn't always happen, I would guess.
But again, if he was called through inspiration, it might be that God...knowing the end from the beginning...knew how things were going to pan out. And the fact is, this man now has been brought to justice and also has an opportunity to repent. Not to say that there hasn't been damage done along the way...

[Bolding added]

That's you, mentalgymnast, saying that "the calling brought him to a position/place of being 'outed'. That's a good thing. "

That's disgusting. And "despicable" is exactly the description you deserve.

[Marcus]

...Others have pressed the necessity/importance in their mind of having the plates come forward as evidence so as to more easily believe and have no doubts, etc...

Lol. "So as to more easily believe"???? No, they haven't. Your trollish rewriting is becoming legendary. And not in a good way.

The plates as Smith described them are a con.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

Edit -> this is to Marcus’ post above the one above:

And worse. What about all the men (and I suppose a few women, relatively speaking) that got away with it all their lives? Yes yes, I know. God’ll get ‘em in the hereafter. -_-

Jersey Girl, I read your posts, but I didn’t want to respond because you’re not feeling well, and I didn’t want to bother your health with a potentially hostile or adversarial comment. I hope you’re feeling better- as an aside long covid has me in its grips; I’m totally wiped.

- Doc

[Gadianton]

On the other hand if there is a God that created all, then all these things, both the good and the bad, are a compound in one. They are part of one grand plan which ultimately brings about the saving of souls and the redemption of ALL of mankind through the gifts and merits of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Yet another contradiction. I'm not interested in the problem of evil discussion going on in this thread, however, I have to say you've got a heck of a double standard. On the one hand, it doesn't matter how much evil happens in the world -- bring it on -- a thousand billion children could starve to death and it shouldn't damage any person's faith whatsoever because God has it worked out. That's all we need to know.

Fine. For the sake of argument, I'll agree with MG on this.

But why doesn't the same logic work for the plates? Why do we absolutely need plates? a billion children suffering, we can swallow that without skipping a beat, but a restoration without plates?! Heresy!

Why wouldn't this statement be equally true to the statement MG produced:

"On the other hand, if there is a God that created all, then all these things, both the good and the bad, including a restoration of the gospel without Gold Plates, are compound in one. They are part of one grand plan which ultimately brings about the saving of souls and the redemption of ALL of mankind through the gifts and merits of the Lord Jesus Christ."

[drumdude]

Edit -> this is to Marcus’ post above the one above:

And worse. What about all the men (and I suppose a few women, relatively speaking) that got away with it all their lives? Yes yes, I know. God’ll get ‘em in the hereafter. -_-

Jersey Girl, I read your posts, but I didn’t want to respond because you’re not feeling well, and I didn’t want to bother your health with a potentially hostile or adversarial comment. I hope you’re feeling better- as an aside long covid has me in its grips; I’m totally wiped.

- Doc

Get well soon! Long Covid is no joke.

[msnobody]

I wish you well with long COVID, Doc. I have coworkers (4 out 13) who had COVID early on and still deal with its effects, and none of them with the same effects.

[Jersey Girl]

Edit -> this is to Marcus’ post above the one above:

And worse. What about all the men (and I suppose a few women, relatively speaking) that got away with it all their lives? Yes yes, I know. God’ll get ‘em in the hereafter. -_-

Jersey Girl, I read your posts, but I didn’t want to respond because you’re not feeling well, and I didn’t want to bother your health with a potentially hostile or adversarial comment. I hope you’re feeling better- as an aside long covid has me in its grips; I’m totally wiped.

- Doc

I saw msnobody's post just now. Didn't see yours because I put your butt on ignore. I did make a strong effort to attend to your comments. I guessed it was long covid. I'm not better. I put you on ignore to get you out of my face. So neither of us is really up to it. Let's go to respective neutral corners and forget it.

Dr. Jersey's orders.

p.s. You can post about your stuff on that thread in SSP. It's turned into an ongoing therapy session. I hate all of this.