Israel

[Res Ipsa]

We (the world collectively) are continually reinforcing the idea to Palestinian youth, that their lives have no value.

In America, the hierarchy of hate has Arab Muslims at the very top (or bottom, I guess?). Incidentally, the religious/ethnic group that has the most hate crimes committed against them in America tends to be Sikhs. Because being in idiot, and hating people for existing, tend to go hand-in-hand; and "turban = Muslim."

Eventually, all of the extremists clamoring to "support Israel" will go back to hating Jews, saying they control everything, and blaming them for starting wildfires with space lasers. But, opportunities for Muslims to be killed en masse can't be passed up. Even if it means pretending to care about the lives of Jews for a while.

F*ck Hamas. F*ck the IDF. Jewish kids, and Palestinian kids shouldn't have to live in fear of being killed for merely existing.

One of the substacks I subscribe to is written by A.R. Moxon. One of his recent pieces wasn't about the middle east, but I thought it captured an important concept. To avoid derailing into other political topics, I'm just going to quote the part that struck home to me:

]All people have an intrinsic and indestructible worth that cannot be measured.

That’s not true of everything, you know. If a car stops functioning properly, it’s no longer as valuable as it was when it was functioning properly. This is the sort of economic analysis that brings in the subscribers, baby.

It’s not that way with people, who as it so happens are not things.

Again: all people have an intrinsic and indestructible worth that cannot be measured. This is a great truth, and most people agree that this is true if you ask. At the same time, if you watch how society behaves and what policy people support, it is pretty clearly not a popular view of things, especially not with the most empowered people in our society....

It’s odd: even though “healing people” is the goal toward which most health care professionals are dedicated, “wiping out sick people and their loved ones financially, mentally, and spiritually” is what our health care system is designed to do, which we know because extracting money from sick people what the system pursues as a first priority, and it does it to people in this country in astonishing numbers each year.

It’s very profitable. Some people think this means it is the very best. I’m not kidding! They really think that, and will tell you so without blushing, even though we can all see that it costs us more than any other developed country, and returns worse outcomes, and wipes people out financially every single day. And if you suggest that maybe our healthcare system should not be designed to wipe people out, they ask you how you intend to pay for a system that is designed to heal people instead, which is how you know that deep down, perhaps without telling themselves, they have decided that it is sick people who should have to pay for being sick, have on some level decided that sick people deserve to be wiped out as they are.

This is a very popular belief, I’ve found. It’s one diametrically opposed to the great truth about indestructible and inherent human worth.

And so, I think the appropriate response to this belief is anger.

And so it is with justice, and with education, and public safety, and housing, and transport, and recreation, and water, and the arts, and elder care, and on and on and on—all driven by the great lie that human beings do not have generative intrinsic worth, but variable quantifiable worth, which leads to the corollary that society serves not human beings but profit, and human beings exist either to receive profit or to be consumed by it, and to be defined by which they are. It’s a lie designed to overwrite the great truth about human worth that we all know in our bones whenever we are asked to put a dollar value on the life somebody we love.

It’s a lie that insists that some people matter and others don’t. That some people deserve and others don’t. That those who don’t deserve are those who suffer, and those who deserve are those who don’t. That pain and punishment is the proof of deserving pain and punishment.

I think the correct response to this lie is anger—anger at the lie, anger at anyone who is committed to promulgating it.

When I say anger, by the way, I mean something specific. I’m talking about a response to corruption. And when I say corruption, I’m talking about something specific.

What I mean when I say corruption is the replacement of something correct and appropriate and generative and good with something incorrect and inappropriate and acquisitive and harmful. Replacing great truths about the inherent, indestructible, and unquantifiable value of human beings with lies about which human beings deserve life and which ones don’t is corruption. Replacing a health care system designed to care for people’s health with one designed to profit off of sick people is corruption, and so is everything that attends it. Replacing a society that exists for the delight and enrichment of human lives with a society that exists to grow profit through pain and punishment is corruption. And so on.

As I see it, anger has three components.

Anger is observant. It is focused on the actual cause of that corruption—in my examples, that would be both the lie that human worth is quantifiable and should be quantified, and those who replace the truth with it.

Anger is restorative. It represents a desire to restore what was corrupted with something that is not corrupted; to replace something false with something true; to replace a system based on growing profits through pain and punishment with a system that is dedicated to human life and enrichment.

And, because of this, anger is appropriate.

Anger wants a Christian Nationalist to have free health care—the same free health care that anyone else gets, because anger realizes that every human being carries intrinsic and indestructible worth, that anger will honor even in those who most deny and corrupt it.

Anger threatens a corrupt system, because anger sees the system is corrupt, and understands what an uncorrupted system would look like, and has expectations that change should come, and intends to work to make it happen.

And there’s a lot of anger around these days. I actually think that’s a positive thing. I think appropriate anger is what changes inappropriate systems.

You sound appropriately angry to me.

[ajax18]

we are at what now.... 7 dead Palestinians for every Israeli killed in the Hamas attack? Won't end till the ratio is closer to 20:1 if history is any indicator.

How many German civilians and children died to get rid of Hitler?

[ajax18]

Eventually, all of the extremists clamoring to "support Israel" will go back to hating Jews,

Or maybe there aren't as many antisemites in the Republican party as the left wing media has led you to believe. It's the Democrat party that has the larger antisemitic faction now. It's the Democrat party that is aligned with Adolf Hitler, the man Palestinians revere as a hero.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

we are at what now.... 7 dead Palestinians for every Israeli killed in the Hamas attack? Won't end till the ratio is closer to 20:1 if history is any indicator.

How many German civilians and children died to get rid of Hitler?

So, you’re ok with what happened in the South?

- Doc

[Vēritās]

we are at what now.... 7 dead Palestinians for every Israeli killed in the Hamas attack? Won't end till the ratio is closer to 20:1 if history is any indicator.

How many German civilians and children died to get rid of Hitler?

Yeah, comparing early 20th century military technology with today's would be something you'd say to justify slaughtering Muslim children. Germany could have very well conquered the entire globe had it not been so impatient, so it wasn't just about "getting Hitler" or retribution, it was quite literally an attempt to maintain our freedoms. Once military targets were neutralized, allied forces didn't continue to carpet bomb civilians in hiding. There is quite literally no comparison to Israel going scorched earth on a civilian population of 2+ million because they want vengeance for fewer than a 1000 civilian deaths caused by a terrorist group.

And you complained about the media immediately leaping to pro-Palestinian narratives about the conflict, when in fact the opposite is true.

What really happened on 7th October?

In the interim, two weeks of blanket western media reporting that Hamas allegedly killed around 1,400 Israeli civilians during its 7 October military attack has served to inflame emotions and create the climate for Israel’s unconstrained destruction of the Gaza Strip and its civilian population.

Accounts of the Israeli death toll have been filtered and shaped to suggest that a wholesale civilian massacre occurred that day, with babies, children, and women the main targets of a terror attack.

Now, detailed statistics on the casualties released by the Israeli daily Haaretz paint a starkly different picture. As of 23 October, the news outlet has released information on 683 Israelis killed during the Hamas-led offensive, including their names and locations of their deaths on 7 October.

Of these, 331 casualties – or 48.4 percent - have been confirmed to be soldiers and police officers, many of them female. Another 13 are described as rescue service members, and the remaining 339 are ostensibly considered to be civilians.

While this list is not comprehensive and only accounts for roughly half of Israel’s stated death toll, almost half of those killed in the melee are clearly identified as Israeli combatants.

There are also so far no recorded deaths of children under the age of three, which throws into question the Israeli narrative that babies were targeted by Palestinian resistance fighters. Of the 683 total casualties reported thus far, seven were between the ages of 4 and 7, and nine between the ages of 10 and 17. The remaining 667 casualties appear to be adults.

Oh, and about that hospital bombing... Israel released an audio clip of a purported Hamas phone call they say proves Hamas bombed it. So Israel has the ability to intercept Hamas phone calls when the lines were shut down and no electricity, but on October 7th they couldn't intercept anything relating to the attack even with Egypt warning them of an imminent threat? Also, those who know the language well and have listened to it say it is fake, and the dialect isn't right. The people in the exchange sound like Israelis trying to speak Arabic.

And the NYT reported the visual investigation of the rocket Israel claimed did it was actually launched from Israel and was unrelated to the blast. Then another video the media ran with turned out to be a video that predated the attack by more than a year.

[ajax18]

Documents recovered from dead Hamas terrorists who invaded Israel on October 7, 2023 show that Palestinians who were granted work permits in Israel used this as an opportunity to help plan the 10/7/23 terrorist attacks. I wouldn't be surprised to see the same thing happen in the US since having a border is considered immoral and excluding radical Islamic terrorists is considered racist according to the ruling Democrat party.

[Res Ipsa]

And you [Ajax18] complained about the media immediately leaping to pro-Palestinian narratives about the conflict, when in fact the opposite is true.

What really happened on 7th October?

Oh, and about that hospital bombing... Israel released an audio clip of a purported Hamas phone call they say proves Hamas bombed it. So Israel has the ability to intercept Hamas phone calls when the lines were shut down and no electricity, but on October 7th they couldn't intercept anything relating to the attack even with Egypt warning them of an imminent threat? Also, those who know the language well and have listened to it say it is fake, and the dialect isn't right. The people in the exchange sound like Israelis trying to speak Arabic.

And the NYT reported the visual investigation of the rocket Israel claimed did it was actually launched from Israel and was unrelated to the blast. Then another video the media ran with turned out to be a video that predated the attack by more than a year.

The article you quoted from on the number of deaths is highly misleading. The Haaretz article it refers to is an "in memoriam" piece that shows names, locations and photos of victims for which Haaretz has that information. The easiest deaths to verify are those in the military, because the military keeps track of its soldiers. It is much harder to identify bodies from remote settlements, especially when bodies were burned. If whole families are killed, identification of children is especially problematic. There is no reason to believe that the people shown in the Haaretz memorial piece are statistically representative of all casualties.

Here's an article from the Times of Israel from 10 days ago. https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_ ... dentified/ 1003 bodies of civilians collected. 765 (74%) identified. Had all the bodies been collected by that point? Had they all been turned over to the police? Are there any that simply cannot be identified?

Both Israel and Hamas, together with their sympathizers, are putting out all kinds of propaganda. Why should I take the word of a guy who posted on X about the hospital attack based on his review of videos? Why should I take the word of some people who claim a recording is fake? All kinds of motivated people are saying all kinds of things, and they all need to be approached with skepticism.

[Vēritās]

The point is the initial media reports of 1,400 civilian deaths was just pro-Israel propaganda like the 40 beheaded babies narrative. Ajax has been claiming the media has been strictly pro-Palestinian, which is almost laughable.

But when you account for what both pieces are saying the difference is really only around 200-300. We'll know more when all the bodies have been identified which could take months.

This situation is also obscured by the fact that every Israeli who turns 18 is compelled to join the military. So while most Israelis are technically civilians, the bulk of them have military training and experience fighting Palestinians. And I'm pretty sure that's how they're viewed by their enemies.

Regarding the guy on X, it wasn't in reference to video footage. That footage was analyzed by the NYT and other outlets who determined it to be a rocket from Israel, and a video from Aug 2022. The reason I cited the guy on X is because he seems to know Arabic, along with the few hundreds others who commented on that thread. And the overwhelming consensus was that the purported "phone call" that Israel claimed to have recorded from a Hamas intercept, was nothing more than a staged fake audio clip with bad actors with crappy accents. I suspect that the western media would have their own experts analyze and debunk it accordingly, if it were not so pro-Israel to begin with. Because what does this mean if it is fake? It means Israel is actively lying to us.

[canpakes]

Eventually, all of the extremists clamoring to "support Israel" will go back to hating Jews,

Or maybe there aren't as many antisemites in the Republican party as the left wing media has led you to believe. It's the Democrat party that has the larger antisemitic faction now. It's the Democrat party that is aligned with Adolf Hitler, the man Palestinians revere as a hero.

I’m thinking that you’ll have a pretty large audience of folks to convince of this, given how some of the loudest voices on the right tend to give the opposite impression of what you’re saying.

An example: https://www.jta.org/2023/01/25/united-s ... c-comments

(JTA) — The white supremacist and far-right provocateur Nick Fuentes was reinstated to Twitter Tuesday and returned to the social media platform with a volley of antisemitic posts and comments, including praise for Hitler.

Fuentes is a Holocaust denier who first gained prominence after participating in the white supremacist “Unite the Right” rally in Charlottesville in 2017 and was banned from Twitter in July 2021, amid the platform’s crackdown on far-right extremists, particularly in the wake of the insurrection at the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021. He burst back onto the public stage in November, when he and Ye, the artist formerly known as Kanye West, had dinner with former President Donald Trump shortly after Ye embarked on an antisemitic spree on social media and in interviews.

Fuentes’ reinstatement comes as Elon Musk, who acquired Twitter last year, restores the accounts of many people who had been banned for advancing far-right extremist ideas on the platform. A coterie of far-right figures, including the Jewish Republican Laura Loomer and Andrew Anglin, founder of the neo-Nazi Daily Stormer website, had publicly lobbied for Fuentes’ reinstatement after their own accounts were restored.

Fuentes made clear upon his return to Twitter Tuesday that he planned to pick up where he left off, posting a series of comments reflecting the brand of antisemitism that he has continued spreading in spaces that have provided refuge for far-right extremists after Twitter and Facebook cracked down on them. (Ye, too, returned to Twitter with an allusion to his criticism over antisemitism.)

Fuentes posted a gif in which the logo of Ye’s 2024 presidential bid, which he is managing, morphs into a sign that says “DEFCON 3,” a reference to Ye’s vow to go “death con 3 on Jewish people” that prompted his first Twitter ban last year. Fuentes then held a Twitter Spaces live chat that 14,000 people attended at least part of, during which he said he backed Ye’s comments and praised Hitler multiple times. He also reportedly said that regaining his audience on Twitter would allow him to “go to war” with the Jews.

He subsequently posted a tweet with two antisemitic catchphrases alongside emojis. Both of them — “Globalist American Empire” and “Zionist Occupied Government” — are catchphrases among white supremacists who believe that the U.S. government is controlled by Jews.

He then shared a Politico story from Tuesday about how the Republican National Committee will vote this week on whether to condemn Ye, Fuentes and others for promoting antisemitism. A resolution drafted by the committee characterizes Fuentes as “laughingly comparing Jews killed at concentration camps to baking cookies in an oven,” according to Politico’s report.

Fuentes’ tweets do not appear in Twitter searches, but his account is visible to anyone who seeks it out. He has nearly 150,000 followers on the platform. His posts on Tuesday received a mixture of critical and supportive replies.

Watchdog groups including the Anti-Defamation League have sharply criticized Musk for welcoming far-right extremists on Twitter. The CEO has personally responded to comments from some of those extremists questioning why more people are not seeing their posts, and on Sunday, the company’s new director of product management and a trusted Musk ally, Ella Crawford, tweeted, “The future of humanity depends on our ability to ensure that more conversations happen between people who disagree with each other.”

[ajax18]

Or maybe there aren't as many antisemites in the Republican party as the left wing media has led you to believe. It's the Democrat party that has the larger antisemitic faction now. It's the Democrat party that is aligned with Adolf Hitler, the man Palestinians revere as a hero.

I’m thinking that you’ll have a pretty large audience of folks to convince of this, given how some of the loudest voices on the right tend to give the opposite impression of what you’re saying.

An example: https://www.jta.org/2023/01/25/united-s ... c-comments

(JTA) — The white supremacist and far-right provocateur Nick Fuentes was reinstated to Twitter Tuesday and returned to the social media platform with a volley of antisemitic posts and comments, including praise for Hitler.

Fuentes is a Holocaust denier who first gained prominence after participating in the white supremacist “Unite the Right” rally in Charlottesville in 2017 and was banned from Twitter in July 2021, amid the platform’s crackdown on far-right extremists, particularly in the wake of the insurrection at the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021. He burst back onto the public stage in November, when he and Ye, the artist formerly known as Kanye West, had dinner with former President Donald Trump shortly after Ye embarked on an antisemitic spree on social media and in interviews.

Fuentes’ reinstatement comes as Elon Musk, who acquired Twitter last year, restores the accounts of many people who had been banned for advancing far-right extremist ideas on the platform. A coterie of far-right figures, including the Jewish Republican Laura Loomer and Andrew Anglin, founder of the neo-Nazi Daily Stormer website, had publicly lobbied for Fuentes’ reinstatement after their own accounts were restored.

Fuentes made clear upon his return to Twitter Tuesday that he planned to pick up where he left off, posting a series of comments reflecting the brand of antisemitism that he has continued spreading in spaces that have provided refuge for far-right extremists after Twitter and Facebook cracked down on them. (Ye, too, returned to Twitter with an allusion to his criticism over antisemitism.)

Fuentes posted a gif in which the logo of Ye’s 2024 presidential bid, which he is managing, morphs into a sign that says “DEFCON 3,” a reference to Ye’s vow to go “death con 3 on Jewish people” that prompted his first Twitter ban last year. Fuentes then held a Twitter Spaces live chat that 14,000 people attended at least part of, during which he said he backed Ye’s comments and praised Hitler multiple times. He also reportedly said that regaining his audience on Twitter would allow him to “go to war” with the Jews.

He subsequently posted a tweet with two antisemitic catchphrases alongside emojis. Both of them — “Globalist American Empire” and “Zionist Occupied Government” — are catchphrases among white supremacists who believe that the U.S. government is controlled by Jews.

He then shared a Politico story from Tuesday about how the Republican National Committee will vote this week on whether to condemn Ye, Fuentes and others for promoting antisemitism. A resolution drafted by the committee characterizes Fuentes as “laughingly comparing Jews killed at concentration camps to baking cookies in an oven,” according to Politico’s report.

Fuentes’ tweets do not appear in Twitter searches, but his account is visible to anyone who seeks it out. He has nearly 150,000 followers on the platform. His posts on Tuesday received a mixture of critical and supportive replies.

Watchdog groups including the Anti-Defamation League have sharply criticized Musk for welcoming far-right extremists on Twitter. The CEO has personally responded to comments from some of those extremists questioning why more people are not seeing their posts, and on Sunday, the company’s new director of product management and a trusted Musk ally, Ella Crawford, tweeted, “The future of humanity depends on our ability to ensure that more conversations happen between people who disagree with each other.”

There are a few right wing antisemites but how many of them hold office or have an elected Republican representative that supports those views? The entire progressive squad holds antisemitic views. They are the only elected officials voting to stop Israel from eradicating Hamas. If they really cared about the Palestinian people, they'd be eradicating Hamas themselves so that Israel does not have to. Since they're unwilling to do any of that, yeah, they're going to bear some responsibility just like every other civilian in nearly every war that has ever happened in the history of mankind.