Biden needs to step aside

[Kishkumen]

As a human being: Heartbreaking to watch - I felt for Biden's family - I struggle to understand how his inner circle could possibly have allowed him to take the stage.

As an American citizen: Watching the sitting President was very troubling/concerning on several levels.

As a Christian: I am saddened as I anticipate how many will use this heart-wrenching event to mock and humiliate a human being for political gains. Understanding how many families face similar/difficult situations with a loved one, I find myself overflowing with empathy and compassion.

Nice thoughts. I would say that many if not most 80+ folk have bad days. That doesn’t make every day a disaster. I am still waiting for Trump to have what I would call a salutary day because his best day is probably more damaging than his off-days, which are probably days he can do less damage.

[Morley]

Standing on principle I had hoped that Biden would have bowed out almost immediately, said he had done his job in 2020 and passed the reins to someone else with lots of lead time to build up support and messaging.

So did I.

[huckelberry]

Yellowstone, I heard Trump claim what you stated here several times. Myself I see no reason to believe it. It is just another," build the wall and Mexico will be paying for it."

Thanks huckleberry for your response:

You think with Trump in office Russia would have invaded Ukraine? We will never really know because he lost the 2020 election. Do you believe those who cross the southern border are only political refugee's from Central and South America?

Hi Yellowstone. I am unsure what you are considering, I am unaware of a claim that everybody crossing the border are political refugees. There are all sorts of reasons. I have met a number of people who crossed. The ones I met came to work.

I think as you suggest I have no way to know what Putin would have done. I have played enough chess to know it is necessary to consider multiple possiblities. What would Trump have done? Threaten full scale US military involvement as in Iraq? I am not for that and I really do not think Trump would favor that course either. Would a bluff work. It is hard to see inside Putin head for that. I suspect not. The other possible course would make a Trump style deal. What could he offer in trade? Significant weakening of Nato would be a trade Putin would love to make and Trump wants that anyway. I think that would be an across the board weakening of Europe in favor of Putin power. After Nato was weakened what would stop Putin from restarting a delayed Ukrainian invasion? Not much.

[honorentheos]

The problem is--what happens next? The last time that there was a late switch in US presidential candidates was in 1968, when Lyndon Johnson stepped out of the running. That did not end well for Democrats. I still think Biden needs to bow out.

I guess it depends on what you think the ultimate goal for Democrats is here. If the goal is to win 2024 I don't see enough evidence that swapping this late in the game is a good idea. Standing on principle I had hoped that Biden would have bowed out almost immediately, said he had done his job in 2020 and passed the reins to someone else with lots of lead time to build up support and messaging. I think that ship has sailed though.

To me the debate only highlights that despite all Biden's issues he is still the head of an effective administration that is getting stuff done. Messaging has to focus on that good work and get the spotlight away from Biden himself.

It is a sample size of one but I think of the gentlemen that owns the house behind ours. He had a literal Trump flag flying below his US and Marine Corp flags through 2016 and 2020. When he learned that he was gaining VA health care access because of Biden he took the flag down.

I just don't think you'll ever win if it is an election of personalities against Trump. You have to laser focus on the ideas and policies. I'm not saying Biden is a great spokesperson for that, but we're at the point of dancing with who we brought.

100% agree with all of the above. Well said.

[Vēritās]

I think if he chose a more likeable person as VP this time around, people would be more likely to vote for him since the concern is that he's not going to be around for another 4.7 years.

[huckelberry]

It has been a cliché for decades that Nixon lost the debate with Kennedy based upon tv appearance. I have been long offended as I, though rather young, watched and was happy with what Kennedy said and not much happy with Nixon. I have long believed Kennedy won on substance. I have been visually reminded a few times that Nixon looked a bit sour. I think he sounded that way as well.

I actually did not wish to listen to last nights debate. I am tired of Trump's voice words appearance and all. When the debate started I went into the back yard and opened a bottle of beer. After drinking most of it my curiosity got to me so I went inside to see. The sound was off but there were these two faces side by side. Biden looked like he could not believe what he was hearing. I sympathize yet the optic was terrible. Biden looked like a boxer being beaten around the ring in round three.

Who the hell prepped Biden for a book discussion when he as going to a knife fight?

[honorentheos]

The Biden campaign rolled the dice on an early debate and lost. ***shrug*** The major difference between Relief Society and Ds in terms of tactics is that, when something adverse to them in a campaign, the Relief Society double and triple down while the Democrats do their best Chicken Little imitation.

I think that the presidential debates are dead and should be put out of their misery. The combination of Gish Galloping and the ability to spout lie after lie in two minute chunks with impunity make it impossible to have any engagement on the issues. The format makes a demagogue with a loose grip on reality virtually untouchable. The BS Asymmetry Principle guarantees it.

Hindsight is 20-20, but I think the campaign's biggest mistake was forgetting the the KISS principle. Given the format of the debate and the willingness and ability of Trump to confidently spout absolute nonsense nonstop for a couple of minutes at a time, the debate presented the opportunity for Biden at most to do one thing: portray Trump as losing his grip on reality, promote his record as president, portray the same strong image as a leader that he did in the SOTU, goad Trump into gaffes, etc. Instead, he tried to do too much, ending up getting dragged by Trump into a rushed attempt to refute Trump's Gish Gallop of BS -- the one thing that no single human could do real time given the debate's time constraints. He recovered somewhat during the second half, but he came away with a muddled message instead of doing one thing well.

Biden's greatest strength is his record. HIs second greatest strength is that Trump is sliding into dementia. Trump can hold it together in two minute snippets, but his longer speeches at his rallies reveal a man that increasingly cannot distinguish reality from fantasy. Go read his electric batter/shark story or anything he has to say about shower heads and dishwashers and ask yourself whether that's the guy you want cutting deals with Putin. Whatever standard the Relief Society try to hold Biden to in terms of mental competence, Trump is going to fail, and obviously so. Heck, he's so bad already that Fox News has to cut away from his speeches when he wanders into la-la land.

If I had my druthers, Biden would have passed the torch instead of running for re-election. But he's far and away a better candidate than Donald "Your Drunk Uncle" Trump. Running around like chickens sans heads based on a poor debate performance makes little sense to me.

Also agree with this. Well said.

I had the impression Biden immediately lost the game plan when he started attempting to correct the crazy Trump was saying. I understand the impulse but it played out poorly. That said, I really wonder what the longer term impacts will be from some of the things Trump said. Biden looked bad. Trump was openly reinforcing every concern anyone with any concern about his effects on democracy have towards a 2nd Trump term. Anyone crowing about a Trump victory today is marking themselves as anti-democratic if it wasn't obvious before now.

[huckelberry]

I think if he chose a more likeable person as VP this time around, people would be more likely to vote for him since the concern is that he's not going to be around for another 4.7 years.

Veritas, i think you have a point.
It would not be the first time a vice president was changed. I can see this as a helpful suggestion.

[honorentheos]

Yellowstone, I heard Trump claim what you stated here several times. Myself I see no reason to believe it. It is just another," build the wall and Mexico will be paying for it."

Thanks huckleberry for your response:

You think with Trump in office Russia would have invaded Ukraine? We will never really know because he lost the 2020 election. Do you believe those who cross the southern border are only political refugee's from Central and South America?

Putin was either going to invade (what we got) or pressure Ukraine into being a puppet state like Belarus which is what we would have got under Trump. There is more than one way to take over a country. The net result with Trump in office would have been Ukraine back under Putin's control.

[honorentheos]

It has been a cliché for decades that Nixon lost the debate with Kennedy based upon tv appearance. I have been long offended as I, though rather young, watched and was happy with what Kennedy said and not much happy with Nixon. I have long believed Kennedy won on substance. I have been visually reminded a few times that Nixon looked a bit sour. I think he sounded that way as well.

The issue being we tend to be blind to our biases so we may believe we are being rational in our reactions that are often confabulated covers for our emotional or subconscious reaction to a thing. If you say you watched that debate, odds would be very high you found Kennedy the better candidate. Folks who read or listened favored Nixon. You can't say your opinion was not affected by watching the two men talk and it's important to come to terms with how our minds work for that very reason.