Are there still liberal Mormons?

[Moksha]

Are you trying to trap me? I don't like that. But it's something I must put up with.

Regards,
MG

Maybe you could cast a Dusting Your Boots spell on him. Have Everybody Wang Chung turn into a pillar of salt. That would free you from his traps.

[huckelberry]

There is a heresy that is almost universally popular in Christianity today:

1. Hell, being eternal damnation

Universal salvation is consistent will a loving God who is all powerful. Without divine love and universal salvation, you can’t address the problem of evil. Clement, Origen, and Gregory of Nyssa were right.

People accuse progressive Christianity of being newfangled and leaving the substance behind. Not much sense in calling Clement Origen and Gregory of Nysssa of being newfangled or leaving out the Christian foundation and body. I do see some newfangled leaving out of the substance in Chic comics however.

[Everybody Wang Chung]

Time for a meme, wang?

Regards,
MG

[Gadianton]

As it is, most members (if those I’ve known over the years are any indication) are not the ‘beasts’ that you have had the unfortunate experience of living with and associating with in your family.

I'd agree, at least 51% aren't like that. There are plenty who do shun, and shunning happens in gradations. The Church itself started a program aimed at convincing Saints not to give inheritance to their apostate kids and give it to the Church instead. There are truly sick and evil men heading up the cult. The 51% apparently complained and the program ended officially, or it least it quit advertising itself so freely.

There is plenty of scriptural precedent for shunning and faithful logic for shunning. Nobody has ever been disfellowshipped for shunning an apostate child or brother.

Also, bear in mind what I've said about my own case. Even though it's hard to imagine my family shunning me, I also walk on eggshells to avoid the problem. I absolutely do think that if I were the least bit talkative about my beliefs it would make me unwelcome with certain family members. That's not my reason for keeping my mouth shut, my reason is I'm not interested in introducing doubt to my family. I realize how completely wrapped up lives are in the cult, and I would feel terrible if I flipped some switch that led to questioning that then led to marriage problems and all that.

[Morley]

I dunno, MG. Maybe you’re remembering something that didn’t happen. You say that you read Sunstone as a teenager, too.



But you didn’t.

Hi Morley. We had both. I may be off on the timeline. This was a long time ago. If I misspoke on the chronology, I’m sorry. Especially if that somehow is an issue for you.

Memories fade sometimes when it comes to what took place when. I didn’t write it in my journal.

The fact is, when I was younger, pre mission and post mission (I think?), I read through a lot of Dialogue and Sunstone.

It was after my mission I attended Sunstone and FAIR. That I’m sure of the timing.

Along with Tanners and just about everything else that was coming into view.

Hope that helps.

Regards,
MG

I doubt that Sunstone began publishing until you were probably already on your mission.

[Morley]

It looks like you agree. I’ve read the verbal gymnastics of more than a few of these fellows as they try to justify their faith. They each make it apparent how very difficult it is be both an intellectual and a Mormon. Managing the intellectual compromises required apparently is not easy.

As I look through this list I have to think that each of these folks, along with many others in the church that are more or less not as well known, have a vibrant ‘life of the mind’. I, personally, have never felt that I needed to restrict my thoughts in regards to investigating and thinking about the ‘world out there’.

I’m built that way as I’m sure many other church members are.

Regards,
MG

Oh, I agree. I believe they probably did (or do). My suggestion was that being an intellectual while also being a believing Mormon would not be an easy life.

[Morley]

Liberal or conservative, I think it’s difficult be an intellectual and a Mormon. No, I don’t consider myself an intellectual. But I don’t think that those who enjoy any kind of ‘life of the mind’ fare well in Mormondom.

I think intellectual Mormons have an astounding ability to compartmentalize what they know from what they believe.

Agreed. That’s the only way some can keep believing. They must be smarter than I am, because I never could quite manage it.

[Morley]

Liberal or conservative, I think it’s difficult be an intellectual and a Mormon. No, I don’t consider myself an intellectual. But I don’t think that those who enjoy any kind of ‘life of the mind’ fare well in mormondom.

Hi Morley, I would not qualify as an intellectual but I do enjoy some life of the mind. I think all my life I had an urge to discover and perhaps understand a wider variety of things than Mormonism.Growing up there was a year or two I kept on the straight and narrow. I was guilty of meandering at times I remember.

I think that you might qualify, Huck. I certainly read and respect what you have to say.

[Kishkumen]

kishkumen, I like your reply but your original point is already two pages back so i will repeat it.

Community of Christ?

I have long wondered whether God’s cruelty is important to Christianity, making progressive versions lacking in a key characteristic.

Two pages of MG is , Mg is not, etc sheesh.

So, I don’t think it should be an important component of Christianity. It’s just that humans delight in seeing others get their just deserts. In fact, they think God would be unjust if certain folk did not burn in hell forever. That is why so many Christian churches have included this idea in some form. Even Mormons love to say casually that so and so is going to hell or they don’t want to go to hell, vel sim., even though there is no eternal hell in Mormonism! Hard asses in Mormonism instead dream of the dronification of people who are stuck in a lower kingdom for eternity. They insist on imagining that these people will be unhappy because they won’t be as happy as themselves. Progression through kingdoms is the far more humane doctrine, but most Mormons won’t have it. For them the perceived eternal disappointment of the non-celestial person seems only just.

[ceeboo]

Going through a faith crisis and struggling with belief is not apostasy.

For any believer - No matter if said believer is Mormon, Protestant, Muslim, Catholic, etc, etc) experiencing various degrees of struggle and/or crisis concerning their belief is extremely common. I would even go as far as suggesting that a non-believer (a.k.a. - No God) can experience the very same thing, along similar degrees, in the opposite direction.