The Rise in Political Violence

[honorentheos]

A question for anyone who feels the Democrat party is primarily driven by identity politics:

How would you distinguish an argument supporting agnostic human rights apply in the case of a same-sex couple or transgender person from an argument that it is about the person being transgender or privileging same-sex marriage?

And, does that distinction matter to you?

[Gadianton]

Also, the killing babies thing. This is an example were the Party has told idiots for years that Democrats kill babies.

Let's not confuse being "pro baby" with being "anti-woman". If Republicans are so pro-baby, then show me the part in Project 2025 (or any other MAGA conservative platform) where programs to help babies and small children are significantly supported rather than gutted, and that includes helping the mothers of the babies because -- this may come as a shock to our Republican contributors here -- babies need their mothers in order to survive.

If you look at the big picture, what Republican polices are actually trying to accomplish is punish the mother for having sex. That's basically what the pro-life movement is about. I can't speak for the male contributors to this forum who are pro-life specifically because I haven't seen enough of their life or beliefs revealed online to make the call. I can say that there is a remarkable consistency to any right-wing male who has revealed their pro-life beliefs to me in the real world. And that is, they have some kind of heavy life burden in regards to sex. They have either been outright womanizers with long histories of purchasing sexual services or have admitted to me in shame their addictions to pornography. They are angry over what seems to be not having gotten enough sex for themselves, so by golly, nobody else is getting any or they will at least pay the price for it!

On the other hand, I've known pro-life women who are at least consistent in that they actively participate is some way in services that help babies and small children. A couple.

Republican science ignorance and shallow discussions of rights aside, I can accept that Republicans as a group are actually pro-baby if and when they show me the significant programs they fund or volunteer for that are aimed at not just forcing the mother to have a baby, but supporting the baby after birth. And that means all babies, not just a few of which they pick over and adopt. At the recent MSG hate-fest,

“These Latinos, they love making babies, too. Just know that they do,” Hinchcliffe said, setting up his joke: “There’s no pulling out. They don’t do that. They come inside, just like they did to our country.”

This isn't the pro-baby party. The pro baby party would by happy to bring all these babies into the world and help support them, not just force the woman to have them as punishment for sex.

Oh, and by the way, the MSG rally is a real rally that happened that shows the beliefs in real MAGA Republicans. Videos on YouTube written written by an A.I. that narrates to stock images is not a representation of what MAGA actually believes.

[ceeboo]

Thanks Ceebs.

You're welcome, Res.

I’m going to take some time to digest before I respond.

Please take all the time you need. Respond if you want - do not respond if you decide not to - no worries either way.

[Some Schmo]

If you look at the big picture, what Republican polices are actually trying to accomplish is punish the mother for having sex. That's basically what the pro-life movement is about.

Yes.

I've known more than my share of folks who think you shouldn't have sex unless you're trying to make a baby. Sex for pleasure? Depraved! Of course, men are depraved, so we don't punish them, but women... tsk tsk. You should know better.

Another way of making your point is that there are too many people in this country with a stick up their ass about other people having sex. As if any of them give the tiniest crap about strangers' unborn fetuses. It is such a lie, and a crappy one at that.

[canpakes]

… In my view, the current political party in power has failed the citizens of this country, miserably. In addition to things such as their destructive and divisive obsession with identity politics, race, gender, sexual orientation, and their apparent desire to remove merit from being a thing, …

I've never once heard Harris talk about identity politics, race, gender, sexual orientation, or an apparent desire to remove merit from being a thing.

There’s that ‘someone is getting something that they don’t deserve’ thing.

[Some Schmo]

I've never once heard Harris talk about identity politics, race, gender, sexual orientation, or an apparent desire to remove merit from being a thing.

There’s that ‘someone is getting something that they don’t deserve’ thing.

ceeboo is against DEI, but he hates it when people call Republicans racist. I wonder why. Being against DEI says at least one of two things: I don't understand what DEI is about, or I'm a racist prick.

[Schreech]

I will be the first to say that I think Ceeboo has a moral compass, just like I do. I also hate it when someone drags my name into a thread I haven’t chosen to participate in. In his place, I’d be pretty defensive.

What I would love to understand is how Ceeboo’s moral compass helps him navigate Donald Trump. Not to castigate him. But because I genuinely don’t understand how he does it. And if I can’t even understand that, then you can accurately label me as a”doomer,” because we are all well and truly screwed.

Maybe it’s not the compass that is the issue so much as the lens that it is being read through.

I haven’t met any Trump voters who seem to be able or willing to cogently articulate why they want Trump back in office, past vague and dubious generalizations that don’t really hold up under examination. There is a single exception, though ... one underlying and consistently implied theme winds its way through their thinking and out into their spoken (or shouted) opinions - even if not directly - about everything they don’t favor:

“Somebody is getting something that they don’t deserve ..!”

- DEI? Somebody is getting a job or benefit they don’t deserve.
- Affirmative Action? Somebody is getting a college degree they don’t deserve.
- Gay or Trans issues? Somebody is getting a ‘special right’ or some attention they don’t deserve.
- TANF or Childcare assistance? Somebody is getting assistance that they don’t deserve (they should have kept their legs crossed!)
- College Loan Forgiveness? Somebody is getting financial help they don’t deserve.
- Illegal immigration? Somebody is getting into this country and they don’t deserve to be here.

The last example is the clearest one, given how strongly Trump and his surrogates have leaned into it. In case you missed it - and as example - Megyn Kelly was on Bill Maher’s show the other night, and when asked how or why she supports Trump, illegal immigration was her primary ranting point, with her repeating the BS lie of ‘20 million’ illegals having marched in since Trump was booted from office. But the problem for her isn’t that the path to citizenship is horribly dysfunctional or that we desperately need more resources to process people wanting to enter the country. There’s no mention of any of that from her. Rather, it’s that they’re here at all. And, that’s not allowed, dammit! They’re getting things and stuff!

Megyn and her viewers have a kind of ‘moral compass’ at work there, but the reference point isn’t based on any overarching concepts of morality or justice. Rather, their compass bases its reference on that individual’s personal point of view and on how they feel unfairly wronged in comparison.

Folks locked into this perspective are not going to change, nor are they able to recognize the flaw in that approach. They’ve been processing their journey through life within that more-egocentric framework for decades. It’s a set behavior.

One could even argue that this is just the ever present human sense of self-preservation at work, but manifesting in a warped way.

Anyhow, apologies for phrasing all of this crudely, but we’re carving pumpkins at the moment and I’m a bit distracted.
: )

Just wanted to take a quick sec to say this was a great post. Makes sense, considering ill-informed, angry white men are the base of the MAGA movement. Society adjusting to accommodate different people, needs and situations, in their mind, is going to cut into their Entitlement/Birthright/Religious freeeeeduummmmb/etc. Just look at the trumpers here, nothing but lists of grievances parroted from right-wing propaganda. MAGA = make America a place where old, straight, white, Christian men are treated the way THEY "deserve" to be treated.

If you, as a white, American-born citizen, are in any way threatened by affirmative action, DEI or immigrants taking your job, the problem is not the system, it's you. I can only assume people who believe there is a "desire to remove merit from being a thing" have nothing to offer and prefer to seethe instead of upping their skills to compete with the harder-working and better-educated immigrants and minorities they are competing with.

Also, Pro-life - women don't "deserve" to have consequence-free sex. AND, It must carry a lifetime punishment if they happen to get pregnant.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

Videos on YouTube written written by an A.I. that narrates to stock images is not a representation of what MAGA actually believes.

How about this?

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

A question for anyone who feels the Democrat party is primarily driven by identity politics:

How would you distinguish an argument supporting agnostic human rights apply in the case of a same-sex couple or transgender person from an argument that it is about the person being transgender or privileging same-sex marriage?

And, does that distinction matter to you?

For me it boils down to the rhetoric of dehumanization. When a politician engages in such hateful speech and the audience roars its approval I think it’s safe to say we have some serious issues in this country that can’t be solved with a good economy, a strong military, or pointless platitudes of “coming together.” Not sure how to get things back on track where citizens feel unified as Americans. Alien invasion?

- Doc

[ceeboo]

… I'm a racist prick.

It's not easy to admit something like this on an internet message board.

Just think, if you were to put some effort into not being a prick and not obsessing over pigmentation levels in human skin, one day you would no longer be a prick or a racist.