Trump Desires to be Sued Over Birthright Citizenship, Does Anyone Understand Why?

[Markk]

you are living in a bubble and do not understand the issues, concerns, problems and burdens that Immigration puts on our country.

as if you understand the issues, problems, and burdens that immigration puts on our country...you just know you're hopping mad about somethin'.

You went into a meltdown over the spot where you kissed your first girl succumbing to urban decay and blamed illegal immigrants on the whole thing. So far, there has been no realistic presentation of the problems of "immigration" from you nor your party, the worst offender being the guy you elected.
My right wing friend and his wife are both here because of illegal immigration and they feel the same way you do.

Talk about the bubble. The decay is mostly from the drugs that come in, mostly over the southern border. I would be interested in hearing your opinion why cities like San Bernardino are in such a deep decline and literal decay?

[Physics Guy]

What is the connection between drugs and immigration? I was under the impression that the drugs were mostly being purchased willingly by American citizens.

[Markk]

What is the connection between drugs and immigration? I was under the impression that the drugs were mostly being purchased willingly by American citizens.

This, your reply, is why the left is losing the confidence with more and more Americans, and part of why they lost the election. You know perfectly well the issues here, I hope. If you don't, the connection, and common denominator is the lax border policy.

[canpakes]

You are clearly dancing around. And avoiding answering my questions, as always.

Can you point out what questions of yours I haven’t answered? I don’t see any.

Or is it just that I’m giving answers that you don’t like?

I believe that all people that come here illegally, that have made no efforts to follow the law, should be deported, yes. We have had amnesties so many have had chances to come forward and do things right, that didn't.

Sounds like a reasonable criteria on its face, but the description ‘have made no efforts to follow the law’ is squishy. Which law? General, or immigration specifically?

I don’t disagree that they can be detained if “(making) no efforts to follow the law” refers to general behavior (includes shoplifting and jaywalking), but otherwise they can be granted a chance to proceed if the are willing to demonstrate progress. The problem for folks who’ve crossed over without being processed is that they end up landing in a legal no-man’s land of not being able to proceed with efforts towards legalization, even if they’re employed, honest, productive, whatever.

Regardless, I believe that any detention should only apply to those people having made that decision to enter as adults. ***ETA: To clarify, if your parents brought you here as a three-year-old in 2005, then there’s no ‘illegal entry’-dictated reason to detain you with intention to deport now, even if you’re an adult now, solely for that status and barring any other considerations.

I also have no issue with the current interpretation of the 14th Amendment.

I understand it will get sicky with many, and those will have to be fought out in the courts. We have to get this mess straightened out, and there will be thought decisions made. I would be open to have selected amnesty to productive illegal immigrants, that came here young at know fault of their own, and have no place to go. Again it won't be easy, but ignoring we have a huge problem is not working.

In other words, you believe that a sort of ‘instant citizenship’ - or amnesty - can be possible, if we allow it, and given an applicant’s history/record. And that also makes sense to me.

Ignoring any humanitarian reasoning and focusing just on the financial side of the argument, it seems obvious that the Administration’s proposed spending of many billions of dollars to ship people out of the country based solely on legal guidelines is economically foolish if the alternative is to allow decent, employed folks a chance to instead become citizens and contribute to the economy and the tax base.

What people do you believe that should be deported? Who should be allowed to stay?

Is your record clean?
Can you demonstrate an employment history, even if currently temporarily unemployed?
Are you a family caregiver?
If any of these apply, you have a chance to remain.
Those are starters for acceptance into a probationary period (described earlier).

What about the millions that never show up, and those that never received a NTA, should they be deported? Can we agree that the NTA system is being exploited, and needs reform?

1. See above. Can they be offered a chance to remain? I think so; why not?
2. Yes, the NTA system is being exploited, which would only happen if an exploit was available. That exploit is that the system allows a chance for citizenship.

Do you have a problem with criminals and gang members who are here illegally being deported?

Of course. If you had read my post (reprinted above) from two years ago, I’d even be in favor of having aspiring citizens in their probationary period deported if they commit felonies.

[Doctor Steuss]

For reference, the "lax border policy" last year resulted in the seizure of 175,000 pounds of marijuana, 174,000 pounds of meth, 68,200 pounds of cocaine, 21,900 pounds of fentanyl, 1,200 pounds of heroin, 17,600 pounds of khat, 7,300 pounds of ketamine, 609 pounds of ecstasy, 14 pounds of LSD, and over 100,000 pounds of other illegal drugs.

As some not-so-fun math, the amount of fentanyl stopped from entering the US last year alone is enough to kill half of the world's population in a single overdose.

[canpakes]

What is the connection between drugs and immigration? I was under the impression that the drugs were mostly being purchased willingly by American citizens.

This, your reply, is why the left is losing the confidence with more and more Americans, and part of why they lost the election. You know perfectly well the issues here, I hope. If you don't, the connection, and common denominator is the lax border policy.

‘Lax border policy’, drug enforcement efforts and the debate over immigration are not linked in the way you present. If every border crosser was (1) carrying fentanyl or precursors and (2) a noncitizen, then you’d have a point. But this is far, far, far from the case, especially given how many American citizens have been found to be carrying fentanyl across the border.

In short, you can’t rationalize your attitudes towards border crossers in general on the drug choices and addictions of Americans.

[canpakes]

For reference, the "lax border policy" last year resulted in the seizure of 175,000 pounds of marijuana, 174,000 pounds of meth, 68,200 pounds of cocaine, 21,900 pounds of fentanyl, 1,200 pounds of heroin, 17,600 pounds of khat, 7,300 pounds of ketamine, 609 pounds of ecstasy, 14 pounds of LSD, and over 100,000 pounds of other illegal drugs.

As some not-so-fun math, the amount of fentanyl stopped from entering the US last year alone is enough to kill half of the world's population in a single overdose.

As well, last year ICE removed over 271K non-citizens.

https://www.ice.gov/doclib/eoy/iceAnnua ... FY2024.pdf

The current performance of Trump’s promised ‘mass deportations!’ is barely pacing above that figure so far. Of course, we’re only just over a week in.

[Doctor Steuss]

As well, last year ICE removed over 271K non-citizens.

https://www.ice.gov/doclib/eoy/iceAnnua ... FY2024.pdf

The current performance of Trump’s promised ‘mass deportations!’ is barely pacing above that figure so far. Of course, we’re only just over a week in.

He may not be removing vastly more people than Biden did, but he's at least doing it in an expensive and inhumane way (so inhumane that Colombia, which accepted 100s of deportation flights under Biden risked economic sanctions because of how disgusting human being were treated under Trump).

Oh, sending American citizens (like a mother, grandmother, and toddler) to an ICE detention center for the crime of speaking Spanish while shopping is a fun added benefit for MAGA. Frosting, of course, being harassing Native Americans so much that the Navajo Nation's phones have been absolutely inundated by calls from tribal members. Imagine being Native American, and having Trump's storm troopers plague your community and demanding you prove that you have a right to be in America.

Curiously, despite hundreds of thousands of Europeans here illegally, we don't see any white people being harassed by ICE. Probably just a coincidence.

[canpakes]

Frosting, of course, being harassing Native Americans so much that the Navajo Nation's phones have been absolutely inundated by calls from tribal members. Imagine being Native American, and having Trump's storm troopers plague your community and demanding you prove that you have a right to be in America.

I’ve heard the same. There’s probably no greater or more disrespectful recent slap-in-the-face to the Native American population, and layered on top of all of the other crap and genocide those communities have endured during the previous 500 years, it’s absolutely inexcusable.

[Gadianton]

What is the connection between drugs and immigration? I was under the impression that the drugs were mostly being purchased willingly by American citizens.

Well just because right-wingers are addicted to drugs doesn't mean immigration doesn't factor into the problem. Yes, Fentanyl comes heavily from Mexico. You're not going to stop it by raiding meat factories in New Jersey, of course. Their is no congruency between Trump's actions and the stated concerns of unhinged (and uneducated) right-wingers. Angry and immoral people want blood to satisfy some tangent fantasy they have.

To do anything beyond mere token acts will screw over a lot of innocent people. There is no concentrating primarily on criminals, as Trump lied about. With legal immigrants, you can cause mayhem through database parsing. You look for certain keys and values in one database and cross it with another, and go to those addresses and either arrest or send notices in the mail that they are screwed. Innocent people for the most part are hurt, screwed by technicalities of one form or another. For illegals, there is no database. So to go the low-hanging-fruit approach of LE, you raid the places of work, there is really no other choice.

It's hugely hypocritical because as Ajax has said, he respects the hard-working Latinos. Markk doesn't, of course. Mark has aligned himself with paperwork, like the Nazi's. What's the last name of your parents? Well, that technically falls under Jewish ancestry and so it's nothing personal, but you're in violation of established law, and your citizenship is revoked. Markk rests easy knowing that all of these folks getting sent back are in violation of the law, like driving 30 in a 25.

But they aren't the criminals bringing in drugs, so he's a god-damned hypocrite when considering his messaging.

Markk is concerned about drug dealers and criminals, and about folks abusing Asylum. Is raiding work places the way to find these people? Of course not. The problem is there may not be an easy way to track down the folks Markk is hyperventilating over. So you go with the low-hanging fruit.

People follow status-quo in all areas in law. Like we drive 34 in a 25 because 9 miles over is unquestionable but 10 is raises an eyebrow, people cross the border all the time for work because as the right-wing farmers have been pointing out, this kind of illegal immigration is an open secret. We let it go, on both sides. There is no process for getting the numbers required on the farm and in meat processing plants legally. Markk knows nothing about immigration law or history and is all about empty ad-hoc "concerns". While I commend Canpakes looking for ways to reform the immigration system, I'm not so optimistic, and I'll go on the record saying there is no solution to immigration in the US.

The reason why is because poor unskilled workers are those targeted for farms and the plants, but they are the least likely to have documentation -- documentation from their own country or a bank account. There is no way to do a reasonable background check. Not like it would say much anyway, but for the sake of a check-mark in a box, it circumvents the "does not compute" for the procedure of a 1st-world country. The process needs plausible deniability. If someone comes in legally and commits a bunch of crime, we can say, "we had no idea, their background check came out clean."

In Trump's first term, he advanced "solutions" like, immigrants must pass an English test like prospective citizens need to. If the immigrant has a birth certificate and passport from their origin country, a bank account with 40k, and can speak English, they are no longer prospects for the jobs folks cross over for. There have been ad-hoc ways the government has pulled to get otherwise illegals into the system but there will never be a black-and-white policy because "paperwork" can never be satisfied. Anyway, this is a perfect example of Trump making it harder to immigrate legally -- by raising the bar for the profile of prospective immigrants. Those who hit that bar don't want those jobs.

Farms need workers, the system has no formal solution, and so word of mouth solves the problem and like the right-wing Trump-voting ignorant-ass farmers say, it's an "open secret" the authorities tolerate. But in times of revolution, when someone wants to make an easy statement, then the tree is ripe for picking.

Nobody would have a problem with isolating drug-dealers and criminals and deporting them. It is worth pointing out, that fentanyl is cheap and easy to make, once the border is fully shutdown after deporting all the workers Ajax is okay with (obviously) doesn't stop drugs, then FedEx and drones will drop off the raw materials and Americans will take up production in their garages. Today's right-winger has forgotten the lesson of the previous generation of free-market conservative, that the market will always beat government policy. Closing borders and arresting farm workers won't solve the irresistible attraction between supply and demand -- the demand of right-wing drug addicts.