Donald J Trump Assumes Full Control of the Progressive Movement

[Physics Guy]

I'm amused and saddened by the post-election analysis that goes something like Democrats failed to message well to idiots. They need to learn how to attract more morons.

I'm paraphrasing, but not much.

Could there be something to this, though?

The MAGAns are too ignorant to cope with the modern world. This is probably partly their own fault, on average; most of them could probably have learned more if they had tried harder to learn.

The modern world is complex, though. I don't actually know much of anything about how the world looks to a MAGA American, but I don't think that the things they don't understand are easy to understand for anyone. And if I compare this kind of ignorance to the kind of ignorance that I do know well, in physics, I would guess that most of the people who act as though they do understand don't really understand that much better.

Most people who think they understand physics are really just nodding their heads wisely and cheering for what they know must be the right team. They say the things that all the good people say: angular momentum conservation, energy, yada yada. If you ever do really understand some tricky point, you see that all those things the good people say are just useless. They're probably technically right, as far as they go, but they totally fail even to mention the one or two crucial points that actually make up the real story, once you know the real story. Yes, angular momentum is conserved, but the crucial thing about a spinning top is that it is rigid. When different forces act on different parts of the top, internal forces inside the top act to hold the top's shape—and in doing that, they end up affecting how the top moves as a whole.

If anyone ever manages to get a clear enough understanding to be able to explain the tricky point clearly and accurately, then a lot of the people that never could get it before suddenly will—and most of the people who seemed to get it perfectly well will be just as astonished, hearing something they never imagined. If no-one ever explains things that clearly, however, then the lecture hall is really just full of two tribes, neither of which understands, although one of them thinks it does.

I can't help wondering whether American politics is also like that. If it's hard to understand the modern world, then it's much harder still to understand it clearly enough to explain it clearly. But the USA is a big country. It should be able to find some good teachers. I can't help feeling that liberal American politicians have been relying too much for too long on head-nodding and repeating what the good people say. They surely could have taught better, if they had tried harder to teach.

[Gadianton]

I can't help wondering whether American politics is also like that. If it's hard to understand the modern world,

They way the representative system was billed when I was a Freshman, this would be my intro American history professor, is that a representative isn't a quant, but a wise leader who you hope you can trust somewhat like a good parent. The leader gets advice as needed from smart people to weather what comes. The leader isn't necessarily the smartest. And as the base goes, Republicans have a culture of believing they are quick-witted common sense people. Democrats have a culture of believing they are educated. I remember a Newsweek (some article) during the Bush Kerry election that I read at a dentist's office.

Kerry was the intellectual who was friends with Al Gore and a serious person. George W. was billed as an idiot, a good ole Texas boy. One memorable clip from the evening news from that time had George W. with family and friends at a buffet. George W., during that couple of seconds on screen, splits toward another table with a goofy grin and says, "I'm gonna get me some of these ribs." But then it turns out that George W. did better on his college entrance exams than John Kerry did and caused a minor fiasco. Several of Trump's advisors and many grifters of the MAGA crowd are ivy league grads.

I think I would take things a little differently and not say that the problem with MAGA is that they are uneducated; my own barely education says it's tough to beat the market and so backing a president based on policy intended to make the economy do better isn't a viable option. It's more of a general direction thing, wisdom, and trustworthiness. And uneducated person should be able to tell when another person is basically good to the extent anybody can, and nobody in their right mind would consider Trump a "good" person. In fact, that's the feature here, a negative hero.

The way I see it is that Trump supporters have less of an intellectual problem, although any you encounter in media or online are idiots either because they are idiots or because acting like an idiot is what's cool, but because they lack fundamental morality.

[Gadianton]

Throughout the past four years, Biden and Kamala had the opportunity to reach out to Elon for assistance in navigating the federal government to identify waste, fraud, and overspending.

Right, that's a serious and well-informed point you have there HoH. Biden also had the option of stealing Putin's thunder and invading Ukriane first. What a sell that would have been to the MAGA crowd? You'd have been in joyful tears, "my party is back!"

[Hound of Heaven]

Throughout the past four years, Biden and Kamala had the opportunity to reach out to Elon for assistance in navigating the federal government to identify waste, fraud, and overspending.

Right, that's a serious and well-informed point you have there HoH. Biden also had the option of stealing Putin's thunder and invading Ukriane first. What a sell that would have been to the MAGA crowd? You'd have been in joyful tears, "my party is back!"

You are completely overlooking the point that both Clinton and Obama emphasized the significance of reducing government waste and overspending. DOGE ought not to be a matter of political debate. It is essential for both parties to ensure that the government operates effectively. How can you possibly disagree with that? I thought you said you were a libertarian.

[¥akaSteelhead]

now just show me where DOGE has found fraud and abuse rather than just pointing to spending the current administration isn't aligned with and screaming "fraud" --- and you might actually have a point.


Meanwhile the congress is planning to increase deficit spending by what ... 5-7 trillion over the next 10 years?

The GOP has never been the party of fiscal responsibility.

[canpakes]

You are completely overlooking the point that both Clinton and Obama emphasized the significance of reducing government waste and overspending. DOGE ought not to be a matter of political debate. It is essential for both parties to ensure that the government operates effectively.

Clinton’s approach was much more careful and measured, was implemented over a lengthy time period and even offered retraining for certain employees.

Musk’s approach has been chaotic, not based on performance criteria or job duty, and sloppy enough to have required thousands of fired employees to be rehired within days or weeks.

You continue to push a straw man argument that anyone opposing Musk’s dangerous ‘bull in a china shop’ approach must then also oppose government cuts. These are two separate arguments, and your continued attempt to conflate the two makes you look intentionally disingenuous.

How can you possibly disagree with that? I thought you said you were a libertarian.

You’ve claimed to be a Democrat, but don’t seem to know anything about the history of that party, or what its current platform is about. Maybe start by reading up on Clinton’s work regarding cuts in government spending. Do you need a link?

[Hound of Heaven]

You’ve claimed to be a Democrat, but don’t seem to know anything about the history of that party

I have a deeper understanding of the Democratic Party than anyone else here. The party I grew up in, until recently, would have stood during the presidential address when a 13-year-old boy, who has undergone a dozen brain surgeries, was made an honorary member of the Secret Service.

Now, it seems to have been infiltrated by a group of entitled individuals filled with hate. However, it is evident that the Democratic Party is now swaying to the rhythm of a suicide dance, with members, particularly from the progressive faction, prioritizing opposition to Trump on every conceivable matter, even at the risk of appearing irrational!

Under progressive leadership, the Democratic Party has lost its sense of humanity, and I don't foresee them regaining it anytime soon. Indeed, I believe it is more probable that the progressives will lead themselves straight off a political cliff, with nearly every Democrat trailing behind, as they seem to find death more acceptable than permitting any form of bipartisanship with Trump. Over the past eight years, Trump has undeniably transformed the Democratic Party into one characterized by irrationality and certifiable behavior.

[Doctor Steuss]

You’ve claimed to be a Democrat, but don’t seem to know anything about the history of that party

I have a deeper understanding of the Democratic Party than anyone else here. The party I grew up in, until recently, would have stood during the presidential address when a 13-year-old boy, who has undergone a dozen brain surgeries, was made an honorary member of the Secret Service.

I hate the hyper-partisan stuff that has made it to where no one on each side is allowed to so much as golf clap to the other side. I get how off-putting it was that a guy who funneled money from a kid's cancer charity into his own business, and was part of a scheme to profit off the deaths of Jewish kids that had cancer, and tried to make cuts to cancer research, used a kid with cancer as a prop. It wasn't the kid's fault. That was a once-in-a-lifetime dream moment for a kid, and it should have been reason for celebration for everyone.

Trump is a piece of crap with a documented history of walking in on kids getting dressed, and his supporters don't care (if anything, they like that he's a disgusting and unethical human being and predator), but that doesn't mean a kid can't be celebrated. That kid deserved everyone sharing in his joy and moment.

[canpakes]

You’ve claimed to be a Democrat, but don’t seem to know anything about the history of that party

I have a deeper understanding of the Democratic Party than anyone else here. The party I grew up in, until recently, would have stood during the presidential address when a 13-year-old boy, who has undergone a dozen brain surgeries, was made an honorary member of the Secret Service.

Not all theatre performances require standing in response.

Now, did you do any reading up on Clinton’s reforms, yet? : D

[Gunnar]

Not all theatre performances require standing in response.

Now, did you do any reading up on Clinton’s reforms, yet? : D

And did he ever take a look at and comment on the 2024 Democrat platform as we urged him to do?