Vaccines and Therapeutics 2.0 & 3.0 Merge

[Res Ipsa]

Let’s see, you’ve jumped from one photo and one caption to “photos” and “captions.” Which other photos and captions are you relying on, and what is the “HUGE” credibility issue you claim they show.

You’ve also jumped from the one hospital discussed in the article to “hospitals.” Which other hospitals are you now claiming fail to follow safety precautions for nursing staff and, of those, which do you claim are “ bitching about the lunatic right-wing fringe nazi horsemedicine-swallowing idiots.”

Res, look at the caption for this photo, specifically:


Every morning, a team of up to a dozen health care workers makes rounds in the ICU, updating each other on the patients’ conditions, medicines, needs, families and prognoses. Jen, center, coordinates care with doctors, nurses, therapists, dieticians and pharmacists. [ JOHN PENDYGRAFT | Times ]

Right.

Notice that we can’t tell that they’re in any sort of actual ICU. And they’re not updating each other; they’re staring at computer screens that we can’t even see, so they’re probably pretending to do hospital stuff, or - more likely - shopping on Amazon. Or logging in to their crisis actor accounts to download their paychecks from George Soros for appearing in this pic. Or something.

Gotta go with ‘hoax article’ on this one. ; )

Ok, is that Jen, in the center?

[Res Ipsa]

Well. this is another doozy from the article.

Jen asks, pulling an N95 mask over her surgical one.

Yeah. Journalism nonsense.

What is your source for claiming that Jen does not wear an N95 on top of a surgical mask in the described circumstances?

[Alf'Omega]

Well. this is another doozy from the article.



Yeah. Journalism nonsense.

What is your source for claiming that Jen does not wear an N95 on top of a surgical mask in the described circumstances?

And there went credibility out the window...

https://www.verywellhealth.com/surgical ... 95-5084057

[Res Ipsa]

What is your source for claiming that Jen does not wear an N95 on top of a surgical mask in the described circumstances?

And there went credibility out the window...

https://www.verywellhealth.com/surgical ... 95-5084057

Nope. Your article discusses the reverse case. Because N95s are designed to fit snugly under the nose and mouth, it seems odd to me that one would wear a surgical mask underneath one. But I have no idea whether it might be done in some circumstances, as I’ve never been in a COVID ICU, let alone a COVID ICU nurse.

There is at least one photo of Jen wearing a surgical mask over an N95. Several others appear to do the same. It is certainly possible that the writer or an editor reversed the type of masks. As this isn’t an article instructing medical personnel on mask use, it’s at most an error on a technical issue peripheral to the story.

It’s interesting to watch Cultellus put on a demonstration of confirmation bias as he tries to find some excuse to discard a graphic illustration of what COVID 19 vaccine refusal is doing to hospitals across America.

[Res Ipsa]

What is your source for claiming that Jen does not wear an N95 on top of a surgical mask in the described circumstances?

Res. This is not a deposition and you are not Socrates. What is your point in asking these questions?

N95 masks are fitted masks. The staff is fitted for a specific size. Wearing an ill-fitting mask defeats the whole purpose. Either Jen is an idiot, or the article is ridiculous, or both. N95 masks are fitted to the face, wearing it over another mask is just stupidity or theater.

This is the standard Cultellus black and white thinking that he insists he doesn’t engage in. It’s simply false that our two choices are “Jen is an idiot” or “the article is ridiculous.” This is a logical fallacy that Cultellus commits over and over. The formal name is the fallacy of the excluded middle. It is fallacious because there are a number of possible options between the two extreme examples he picked.

Just two. It’s possible that an exhausted RN grabbed an N95 and put it on over a surgical mask before she realized what she had done. Or it’s possible that a newspaper editor or writer made a simple mistake unrelated to the point of the story.

The interesting thing here is how motivated Cultellus is to completely dismiss the article, sometimes based on nothing more that strained reading of picture captions. The combination of motivated reasoning and confirmation is stunning when someone displays it as openly as he does.

[Alf'Omega]

The interesting thing here is how motivated Res is to conclude, based on this article, that these conditions and events are playing out in ICUs across the country.

Yes, because why would anyone in their right mind give the benefit of the doubt to articles based on known people, written by known journalists, when we have an anonymous internet personality claiming it is all bogus?

[Alf'Omega]

“Here are some more bogus accounts from ICUs across the country inundated with COVID patients that we should dismiss out of hand, because some dude calling himself cultellus on the internet says he knows more.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOwZlHXCVeE

https://spectrumlocalnews.com/Texas/south- ... alizations

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTa5msVer2g

https://www.wdam.com/video/2021/08/26/i ... lizations/

https://www.tri-cityherald.com/news/cor ... 44978.html

https://www.statesman.com/story/news/20 ... 106746002/

https://www.live5news.com/video/2021/08 ... lizations/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LU5HyKoAa20

https://spectrumlocalnews.com/Texas/south- ... -capacity-

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-n ... n-n1277524

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcxs7PjuTXI

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ki ... g-n1276238

https://www.kgw.com/article/news/health ... 0befa9401e

https://www.houmatoday.com/story/news/l ... 575306001/

[Res Ipsa]

This is the standard Cultellus black and white thinking that he insists he doesn’t engage in. It’s simply false that our two choices are “Jen is an idiot” or “the article is ridiculous.” This is a logical fallacy that Cultellus commits over and over. The formal name is the fallacy of the excluded middle. It is fallacious because there are a number of possible options between the two extreme examples he picked.

Just two. It’s possible that an exhausted RN grabbed an N95 and put it on over a surgical mask before she realized what she had done. Or it’s possible that a newspaper editor or writer made a simple mistake unrelated to the point of the story.

The interesting thing here is how motivated Cultellus is to completely dismiss the article, sometimes based on nothing more that strained reading of picture captions. The combination of motivated reasoning and confirmation is stunning when someone displays it as openly as he does.

No. That is wrong. And your metaphors are wrong.

The interesting thing here is how motivated Res is to conclude, based on this article, that these conditions and events are playing out in ICUs across the country. The combination of motivated reasoning and confirmation is stunning when he displays it as openly as he does.

Res. I also said that what is described and pictured is cause for termination. The caption is relevant because it says it is a Covid patient. But you go on, Res. I get it. If the narrative is does not fit your conclusion that this is happening across the country, then it is not allowed. I get it. I totally get it. But like the Rolling Stone article, this is one that is packed with nonsense and has evidence of negligence. It is a tear-jerker, I will give you that. But it does not support your conclusion.

Ah, the I am rubber, you are glue defense. I’ll lay out my reasoning:

This is one of only a number of articles published about what it’s like in an ICU or ER overrun by COVID. All report conditions similar to this one. This is simply an additional report to a number of other reports of what it’s like in an overrun hospital for patients and staff. These overrun hospitals are located across the country, from Florida to Washington, where our hospitals are being overrun by Idahoans whose hospitals are overrun, and many locations in between.

If Cultellus finds excuses to dismiss all of the articles that have appeared on this topic, then he’s simply in denial and I’m not going to waste my time showing him what he can find in a few minutes on Google.

And, by the way, Cultellus appears to think he’s got some kind of dynamite argument in “this isn’t a courtroom.” Asking questions to expose BS claims is simply part of rational skepticism. When he does this, it’sa sign he can’t defend his position and he wants to change the subject.

[Res Ipsa]

I work in many ICUs in this country, and these circumstances are not playing out...

How many and over what geography distribution? Do you work in ICUs? Do you understand that "across the country" does not mean "in each and every location in the country"?' If I meant "everywhere," that is the word I would use.

[Doctor Steuss]

An old (possibly outdated) anecdote on double-masking:

There's a little bit of a quasi-myth (or at least, it was when I was bumping around in a hospital long ago) that wearing a surgical mask over the N95 mask made the N95 mask "last longer." The thinking wasn’t that it made it safer or more effective -- it was that putting a cheapy on top helped the more pricey fitted mask get a bit more mileage. At the time, where I was, this was discouraged.

If I had to wager why it seems (from some brief googling) to be moderately commonplace now, I’d guess that some administrators might be pushing it to help cut costs, or because of PPE supply chain disruptions. Then again, maybe it’s just one of those weird folksy things of “if one is good, then two is gooder.”

I’d guess that the journalist just got the two types of masks confused (sloppy mistake). Or at least I really (really, really) hope they did. Otherwise, they might want to hire a new Infection Control Coordinator for the hospital. Ooph.