Church membership numbers not good.

[Marcus]

Convert baptisms:
1990 – 330,877
2020 - 125,930

Church membership:
1990: 7,760,000
2020: 16,663,663

The LDS church claims "every member a missionary."
SAUCE

Ergo,

Converts per missionary 1990= 0.04

Converts per missionary 2020= 0.007

The member-missionary convert-baptism success rate was 5.7 times better in 1990 than 2020.

What can explain this? A decrease in the faith of the members? A field no longer white and ready to harvest? The world population has grown from 5.28 billion in 1990 to 7.753 billion in 2020, so the "field" of potential converts is much larger. One would expect that having twice as many member-missionaries and a pool of potential converts that is almost 50% larger would produce a much higher yield.

Maybe there weren't *really* 16,663,663 members in 2020?

Maybe there weren't *really* 330,887 converts in 1990?

Maybe the people who run this cult and lie about everything else also lie about their membership numbers.

Spending 30 years trying to keep that 300k pattern backfired, it seems. Too many statistical anomalies were created.

[MG 2.0]

Convert baptisms:
1990 – 330,877
2020 - 125,930

Church membership:
1990: 7,760,000
2020: 16,663,663

The LDS church claims "every member a missionary."
SAUCE

Ergo,

Converts per missionary 1990= 0.04

Converts per missionary 2020= 0.007

The member-missionary convert-baptism success rate was 5.7 times better in 1990 than 2020.

What can explain this? A decrease in the faith of the members? A field no longer white and ready to harvest? The world population has grown from 5.28 billion in 1990 to 7.753 billion in 2020, so the "field" of potential converts is much larger. One would expect that having twice as many member-missionaries and a pool of potential converts that is almost 50% larger would produce a much higher yield.

Maybe there weren't *really* 16,663,663 members in 2020?

Maybe there weren't *really* 330,887 converts in 1990?

Maybe the people who run this cult and lie about everything else also lie about their membership numbers.

Again, what matters is the huge increase in numbers of members that do and/or will have access to temples. Earlier I mentioned that there is a winnowing occurring which will result in a change in actual numbers.

I think we’re now seeing the “strait and narrow is the way and few there be that find it” kicking in to the overall scheme. It is people such as yourself that have an interest in ‘pure math’ and then see what you want to see. An incomplete picture.

Active and believing members of the church can see the ‘full’ picture of what is actually going on. The church is and will fulfill its destiny. Temples can’t be built fast enough.

But the church is giving it its best efforts.

Regards,
MG

[Marcus]

Convert baptisms:
1990 – 330,877
2020 - 125,930

Church membership:
1990: 7,760,000
2020: 16,663,663

The LDS church claims "every member a missionary."
SAUCE

Ergo,

Converts per missionary 1990= 0.04

Converts per missionary 2020= 0.007

The member-missionary convert-baptism success rate was 5.7 times better in 1990 than 2020.

What can explain this? A decrease in the faith of the members? A field no longer white and ready to harvest? The world population has grown from 5.28 billion in 1990 to 7.753 billion in 2020, so the "field" of potential converts is much larger. One would expect that having twice as many member-missionaries and a pool of potential converts that is almost 50% larger would produce a much higher yield.

Maybe there weren't *really* 16,663,663 members in 2020?

Maybe there weren't *really* 330,887 converts in 1990?

Maybe the people who run this cult and lie about everything else also lie about their membership numbers.

Again, what matters is the huge increase in numbers of members that do and/or will have access to temples.

How does announcing but not opening temples increase access, especially in areas that already have several under-used temples? But more specifically, how does this address Equality’s questions?

Earlier I mentioned that there is a winnowing occurring which will result in a change in actual numbers.

So, is it “a huge increase,” or is it “a winnowing”?

Having a testimony is fine, but this attempt to explain facts with inconsistent reasoning isn’t working.

[Schreech]

It is this mindset that disallows for any real discussion. You can respond in this manner to anyone that claims belief in God. The conversation is then curtailed/over.

Real discussion of what? The inconsistent and impotent god you have concocted that fits what you have chosen to believe? There is no discussion, just you rearranging the size of the box you have shoved your god into in order to account for the blatant inconsistencies in your beliefs as they are pointed out to you. You may as well just respond with "its MAJIC!" - it would make way more sense than the ad-hoc, elohim-apologetics you engage in here to justify your need to believe in the myopic, fickle diety you have chosen to devote your life to.

To each his own but I have no idea who you are trying to convince other than yourself. Your need to blindly defend the One True real-estate development corp and its board of directors that you have "consecrated yourself, your time, talents, and everything with which the Lord has blessed you, or with which he may bless you (lol)" seems a bit desperate.

[malkie]

Convert baptisms:
1990 – 330,877
2020 - 125,930

Church membership:
1990: 7,760,000
2020: 16,663,663

The LDS church claims "every member a missionary."
SAUCE

Ergo,

Converts per missionary 1990= 0.04

Converts per missionary 2020= 0.007

The member-missionary convert-baptism success rate was 5.7 times better in 1990 than 2020.

What can explain this? A decrease in the faith of the members? A field no longer white and ready to harvest? The world population has grown from 5.28 billion in 1990 to 7.753 billion in 2020, so the "field" of potential converts is much larger. One would expect that having twice as many member-missionaries and a pool of potential converts that is almost 50% larger would produce a much higher yield.

Maybe there weren't *really* 16,663,663 members in 2020?

Maybe there weren't *really* 330,887 converts in 1990?

Maybe the people who run this cult and lie about everything else also lie about their membership numbers.

Even if you look at the ordained/set apart full-time missionaries, you see much the same pattern - as the number of missionaries increases, the number of converts per missionary falls. It's almost as if nothing really matters except for maintaining roughly the same number of converts/year, with some random variation included to make it look not faked.



Numbers taken from http://www.fullerconsideration.com/membership.php

[MG 2.0]

It is this mindset that disallows for any real discussion. You can respond in this manner to anyone that claims belief in God. The conversation is then curtailed/over.

Real discussion of what? The inconsistent and impotent god you have concocted that fits what you have chosen to believe? There is no discussion, just you rearranging the size of the box you have shoved your god into in order to account for the blatant inconsistencies in your beliefs as they are pointed out to you. You may as well just respond with "its MAJIC!" - it would make way more sense than the ad-hoc, elohim-apologetics you engage in here to justify your need to believe in the myopic, fickle diety you have chosen to devote your life to.

To each his own but I have no idea who you are trying to convince other than yourself. Your need to blindly defend the One True real-estate development corp and its board of directors that you have "consecrated yourself, your time, talents, and everything with which the Lord has blessed you, or with which he may bless you (lol)" seems a bit desperate.

Good ol’ Schreech. Blast from the past. I have no idea where to go with this.

Regards,
MG

[Marcus]

Convert baptisms:
1990 – 330,877
2020 - 125,930

Church membership:
1990: 7,760,000
2020: 16,663,663

The LDS church claims "every member a missionary."
SAUCE

Ergo,

Converts per missionary 1990= 0.04

Converts per missionary 2020= 0.007

The member-missionary convert-baptism success rate was 5.7 times better in 1990 than 2020.

What can explain this? A decrease in the faith of the members? A field no longer white and ready to harvest? The world population has grown from 5.28 billion in 1990 to 7.753 billion in 2020, so the "field" of potential converts is much larger. One would expect that having twice as many member-missionaries and a pool of potential converts that is almost 50% larger would produce a much higher yield.

Maybe there weren't *really* 16,663,663 members in 2020?

Maybe there weren't *really* 330,887 converts in 1990?

Maybe the people who run this cult and lie about everything else also lie about their membership numbers.

Even if you look at the ordained/set apart full-time missionaries, you see much the same pattern - as the number of missionaries increases, the number of converts per missionary falls. It's almost as if nothing really matters except for maintaining roughly the same number of converts/year, with some random variation included to make it look not faked.



Numbers taken from http://www.fullerconsideration.com/membership.php

That’s a great website which I’ve looked at multiple times, but I didn’t remember those graphs! It’s a very clear visual, thanks for posting it.

[malkie]

Even if you look at the ordained/set apart full-time missionaries, you see much the same pattern - as the number of missionaries increases, the number of converts per missionary falls. It's almost as if nothing really matters except for maintaining roughly the same number of converts/year, with some random variation included to make it look not faked.



Numbers taken from http://www.fullerconsideration.com/membership.php

That’s a great website which I’ve looked at multiple times, but I didn’t remember those graphs! It’s a very clear visual, thanks for posting it.

Sorry for the confusion - I made the graphs using their data.

[Marcus]

That’s a great website which I’ve looked at multiple times, but I didn’t remember those graphs! It’s a very clear visual, thanks for posting it.

Sorry for the confusion - I made the graphs using their data.

no problem-- i should be congratulating YOU then!!

[Chap]

To each his own but I have no idea who you are trying to convince other than yourself. Your need to blindly defend the One True real-estate development corp and its board of directors that you have "consecrated yourself, your time, talents, and everything with which the Lord has blessed you, or with which he may bless you (lol)" seems a bit desperate.

My problem is a little deeper.

I have no idea what coherent proposition MG is trying to convince himself of.

My current guess is that it doesn't go much beyond "Whatever those people say, they can't stop me being Mormon".